City of IF

[Chinaren]

I am not exactly the most fluent speaker in the world at Chinese, but I know a fair amount, what with living here and all that.

So...What do you want to know how to say/write? I can ask someone if I get a request for something I don't know.

Firstly, some basics.

This is Mandarin, which is understood through-out China now, though in the south they still use Cantonese, and in various places they tend you use local dialects. Still, Mandarin is now taught in all schools, so you can use this pretty much anywhere and be understood these days.

Chinese, like a lot of Asian languages, has tones. Hence a word that often sounds the same to us westerners can actually be 4 or 5 different words depending upon the tone used.

In Chinese there are, well 4 and one more semi-tone!

First done is 'flat'. That is to say if you say 'ma' you should keep the tone 'level' like you are holding a note.

The second tone is rising tone, so like you are asking a question.

The third tone is a funny one, it starts quite high, dips in the middle, then goes high again.

The fourth tone is suprisingly hard. It is a falling tone, sort of the opposite of the second tone. Basically you have to stress the last part of the word.

The 'fifth' tone is actually one use in conjunction with other words and is a very 'light' tone. Kinda hard to explain really!

Anyway, without going into a new novel, to say hello is:

Ni Hao. 你 好 Both are third tone (dip in the middle), and you pronounce the 'hao' like 'how', as in 'How are you today?'

If you break this up you can learn two other words 'free of charge', as 你 (ni) means 'you', and 好 (hao) means 'good'.

Now go away and practice!! :cool:

[ethereal_fauna]

Ack! I'm still struggling with spanish. But this does sound fun.

*goes off to practice (and mixes chinese and spanish)*

[jnmrcs]

I like it... I"m gona try it (all day) :biggrin:

[Chinaren]

Jnmrcs, your avatar has Chinese in the background. "Ming shen mi yan" which I can't translate. Some sort of Bhuddist (how the F do you spell Buddist? :? I never can!) saying apparently.

[Reiso]

It's Buddhist.

And I have always understood that different tones mean different things, but I have never seen it explained why so clearly. I have always been fascinated by both the Chinese culture and language in general, so I quickly recognized the tones you described and it makes so much sense now that you've pointed it out. I'll keep an eye to this one, learning Mandarin would be cool.

[jnmrcs]

Sounds good...

My avatar is Yahiko (from Samurai X or Kenshin, whatever you want to call him). He is suppose to be a son of a Samurai (if I don't remember bad).

Thanks for the information of what it say.

(I like this thread)

[Chinaren]

你好!

I am working on a few different things at the moment, (as well as my 'real' work), so thought I would do another quick lesson whilst I have time.

Now you know how to say hello, I thought I would add a quick way of saying who you were.

You know how to say 'you' ('ni' 3tone) as above.

To say 'me' or 'I' you say 'wo' also third tone. Character is: 我

There is a very common word in Chinese:是 Spelling is 'shi' but the pronunciation is more like: 'shr'. It's maybe a little hard to do unless you hear it, but that's the closest I can come here! 'Shi' uses the 4th tone (falling one).

It can mean quite a few things, depending upon context. Usually the verb to BE. Hence here we can now say:

我是 (insert your name here) So "Wo shi Chinaren." is: I am Chinaren.

o-)

[jnmrcs]

Wo shi jnmrcs.
Ni Hao.
Wo Hao. (I don't know if this is ok, but I am mixing the traductions)

[Chinaren]

Good stuff!

Actually, if you add a 吗 'ma' (second tone) on to the end of 你好 you would get 'Ni hao ma?' (你好吗?) Which translates as "How are you?" or perhaps "Are you okay?" would be slightly more accurate.
You could then reply with your "我好"

The ma2 doesn't have a direct translation, but is used to change a statement into a (yes/no) question.

[jnmrcs]

Thanks for the help...

[Chinaren]

I'm having a quiet day, so another quick lesson.

Perhaps it is time for HE SHE and IT.

When speaking English, Chinese people often confuse HE and SHE, as these are the same (spoken) word in Chinese, which makes it easy and confusing at the same time. IT also has the same pronunciation which is:

"ta" (First tone).

He - ta - 他
She - ta - 她
It - ta - 它

Notice that HE and SHE are similar, with the right half being the same and the left bit being different. This is often the case in Chinese, and it makes learning the language quite hard, as characters can often look very similar.

Anyway, with this little addition you can now say:

"She/he is (name)"

Ta shi (name).

他是(name)

Next... This and that. (if I remember). :cool:

[Ravenwing]

Nihao Chinaren. You're avatar reminds me of one of the Korean characters. But I am assuming it is a Chinese one.

[Chinaren]

Actually it is REN, which means person (or people). I couldn't find an avatar I really liked, so I did this one myself in PaintShop. I chose it because I am crap at art, and this is about the easiest character to do!

REN 人 (2nd tone) Person (or people)

I don't think it looks very Korean though. There are quite a lot of Koreans in various places in China, so I see Korean quite a bit, though I can't speak any!

[Chinaren]

Before I explain 'this' I am going to explain anothe word, often used with 'this' and many others, for reasons that will become apparent later on.

The word is:

个 Ge (pronounced like 'guh') Fourth tone.

This word is used when you are saying 'pieces' of something. There is no real equivalent in English.

It's like if you go to a restaurant and the waiter/waitress says 'How many people?' You may answer '4 people' in English. In Chinese you would say "4 个人" lit:4 (pieces) people.

Anyway, you often also use this word when doing 'this'.

这 ZHE (pronounced a bit like jur) 4th tone. (This)

IN many circumstances you would say it with : 个 GE so:

这个ZHE GE (Often sounds like: 'Jigger' when said quickly.)

If you want to say this is (something/or someone) you would say:

This is (something):

这是(something). ZHE SHI (whatever). Pron: Jur shr

Next: "What is this?"

[jnmrcs]

Ni Hao.
Ni Hao Ma?
Wo Shi Hao.
Zhe Shi Hao.
Ni Shi Hao Ren.
Ni Shi Hao Teacher...

(lol... I'm mixing and practicing it. I hope it will be almost right :P)

[Chinaren]

Very good jnmrcs! :D Go to the head of the class.

Only number three is not correct.

For some reason you don't say 我是好 "Wo shi hao", but just: 我好 "Wo hao." (I'm good/ok/fine)

Actually number four is not quite right either. You would say something like:

这个好 "Zhe ge hao"

Good effort though!

FYI: "Teacher" is: 老师 lao shi.

"lao' (third tone) is pronounced like the LOU in loud. Shi (first tone) is the same as the 是 (shi) we have learnt previously, (pron 'shr' remember) but a different tone of course.

[jnmrcs]

Thanks for the help... I like this class :)

[Shogun]

Ha, I now know some chineese, know any insults Chinaren? Iv'e got a samurai avatar in japaneese but the system wont take it because its to um.....spacy? It worked on animemetro...

[Shogun]

Ay up, I reconfigured it, my avatar means Samurai, I don't know if its Japaneese or Chineese.

[Chinaren]

I think it is probably Japanese. I don't know it, (which isn't saying much) and it caused confusion when I asked a Chinese person.

If it is Chinese it is probably SHI (fourth tone), but then I sometimes think half the words in Chinese are 'shi'.

After some debate someone looked it up and it is 'shi' and means:

'To wait on'

It isn't a common word, that's for sure.

So it is probably Japanese, there are a lot of characters that are the same but mean different things.
[/b]

[Mother Goose]

This is very interesting, but very hard, without hearing the tones or seeing the Chinese characters (they all look like question marks on my screen). I have to keep looking back to see which tone things are supposed to be. It's fun, though, even if I don't learn much Chinese - thank you!

[jnmrcs]

It's fun... and I try to learn something (maybe just writing, because I don't have someone with practice it... lol)

[Chinaren]

Mother Goose wrote: they all look like question marks on my screen

Glad you like it M Goose. You can install Chinese characters via the Language settings found in your control panel. It's not very hard to do, though you may need your Windows installaion CD. Asssuming you are running Windows of course.

Now, will someone else please vote on my 'Narg the Nasty story'? I have to go to Beijing next week so if I get some votes before then I can put up another chapter before I go!

:cool: [/i]

[Chinaren]

As I am here, I may as well do another quick lesson.

What (Only the question what such as 'What is this?', not the 'What a nice car!' statement what.)

This is another two character word:

什么 Shen ma.

If you wish to say 'What is this?' You have to say it 'backwards'

Zhe shi shen ma? 这是什么? lit: This is what?

Now go to your friends and start saying 'What's this?' in Chinese! (After you have read and voted in my 'Narg the Nasty' story of course) ;)

[Chinaren]

Another lesson. Pay attention at the back

Have - 有 - you - third tone. (pron like: You are saying 'yo' as in the slang version of hello. "Yo dude!". Okay, it's weak, but about the best I can do!

No/not - 不 bu (pron: like a short: boo )

If you want say: 'Do you have (this something)?' an easy and common way of saying it would be:

You bu you? 有不有? (lit: have not have?)

However, whilst bu is used for 'no' or 'not' so is:

Mei - 没 @nd tone. (Pronounced like 'may')

This is used for more of a past tense scenario. So the answer to the above question (if negative) would be:

mei you. 没有 (may yo. Sounds like a short version of mayonaisse - mayo).

If the answer is in the affirmative then you would simple say:

you - 有 (yo).

This sort of question format (somthing bu something) is used quite a lot. If you are asking a question, and want to say 'okay? (as in, 'do you understand', or 'is that okay?') you can say:

q: hao bu hao? 好不好? (how boo how)

a: hao 好 or bu hao. 不好

'Bu hao' is generally used to say something isn't good.

That's all for today. Next class in a week or so.

Okay, go and vote for Narg as Storygame of the month and then you can close your books and go out to play...

:D

[Muaddib]

Whats the difference between Indo-European and Chinese languages? Its something like phonetic or some such, isn't it?

[Chinaren]

Muaddib wrote: Whats the difference between Indo-European and Chinese languages? Its something like phonetic or some such, isn't it?

I really don't know! I don't know anything about Indo-European I am afraid. :(

Gosh, I haven't added anything here in ages. I will have to think of another lesson.

Any requests?

[Hyperion]

Ahem... *puts on professor glasses* languages like Chinese are known as tonal languages, for obvious reasons. However, due to the flexibility of such a language, many dialects are born which become remarkably different to the mother language in a short amount of time, so... It gets even worse if the mother language isn't the same. Did you know that argh means something entirely different to an exclamation of pain in certain countries? If so, you are a dirty rotten liar because the above sentence is not true.

[Chinaren]

Hyperion wrote: Ahem... *puts on professor glasses* languages like Chinese are known as tonal languages, for obvious reasons. However, due to the flexibility of such a language, many dialects are born which become remarkably different to the mother language in a short amount of time, so... It gets even worse if the mother language isn't the same. Did you know that argh means something entirely different to an exclamation of pain in certain countries? If so, you are a dirty rotten liar because the above sentence is not true.

Very interesting prof.H, though it didn't really answer my question. Or answer. Whatever it was.

As an aside, different countries say 'ouch' in different ways.

Now.. What was the question again? :?

[Mother Goose]

Muaddib wrote: Whats the difference between Indo-European and Chinese languages? Its something like phonetic or some such, isn't it?
Chinaren, I think Indo-European and Chinese mean groups of languages here, not single tongues. English, Italian, Russian etc. are all Indo-European languages.

[Chinaren]

Mother Goose wrote: Muaddib wrote: Whats the difference between Indo-European and Chinese languages? Its something like phonetic or some such, isn't it?
Chinaren, I think Indo-European and Chinese mean groups of languages here, not single tongues. English, Italian, Russian etc. are all Indo-European languages.

Ah, well in that case. Basically Chinese (and Thai, not sure about the other asian languages) are tonal*. European ones aren't.

That's the main difference I guess. :)

*See my first 'lesson' for Chinese tones.

[Hyperion]

I was answering Muaddib's question Chinaren.

[Chinaren]

Just thought I would add a couple of new words here today, as it is the New Year here. (Of the Dog).

And those are the new words: New and Year.

新 xin (pronounced more like 'sin') is New.

年 nian (Pronounced like nee-en said quickly) means year. 2nd tone.