City of IF

[Key]

The third chapter of the featured storygame "The Machine's Daughter" has been posted:

Chapter 3: Peran

Discussion and voting are complete for Chapter 3.

For more about the storygame, see the New Players Start Here topic in this forum.

[jnmrcs]

Nice chapter. I think she should go. She could find more interesting information that she need. Even when she tried to avoid it, it's her nature the need of knowing herself...

[Muaddib]

FIRST POST!!!!!EDIT: Turns out by the time I finished reading it, Jnmrcs had seized first post.

Quite obviously he's inviting her to rape her. I say rape, because he'd be exploiting her ignorance. She DEFINITELY should NOT go. I think she should talk to her parent set about what she's heard from Peran.

[saxon215]

for me theres no real question, go have fun and learn

[Shady Stoat]

Great chapter. Lots of information, lots of possible ways to go :)

I think this is where Pilla's ambivalence towards Peran comes in. On the one hand, she really, really wants to discover the pleasures he speaks of for herself. All her instincts are urging her towards meeting him this evening, even though she has no idea of what he is truly offering her. That might well be the main part of the attraction for her.

On the other, she has time to go away and think about it. The more she thinks, the more she will subdue her instincts. Logic is a way of life with Pilla now - she can't discard it so easily. In fact, she might bury her 'animal' urges so far as to take the more prestigious job in the Capital.

She may be acting through confusion and impulsiveness. Many things can be justified by 'logic', though, and Peran invokes strong reactions in her. Reactions which she isn't ready to acknowledge.

[Photinia]

After my conversation with Peran, it intrigues me to get to know more about the Scarpi. I've never been there and I've never seen them, so I want to find out if they are warlike the way he says.

I like hiking, and the hillier the better...

[Photinia]

I guess there are far more interesting things going on, much more than that.

It was just a simple thought. If not I think that she would like the more high end and high ranking opportunity in the city...





:P

[Ingrothechundyer]

I think that she would go talk to her parent set about what she has learned. They might be willing to give her some useful information.

[zïa]

lets go to the big çity. pilla want to see what the çapital has to offer (her) :unsure:

[ethereal_fauna]

She's not a child who needs the guidance of her parent-set, and speaking with Peran has confused her more than she was before. I don't think she's going to seek out anyone else to talk to, but rather delve into a few texts between now and the time she is to meet with Peran. Try to find something dealing with these animal feelings she has but does not understand. She seems to have hidden and denied them for so long, but after speaking with the animal she's going to want to explain, to understand what she's feeling.

She also knows that he was less than forthcoming in some of his answers, and that there are other animals with the same appearance as hers. She'll meet with him to find out more. And she'll most likely end up in Nugoz, or some other location where she can observe animals closely, in hopes that she'll discover more like her.

[john hardy II]

well then,

i think she should go to nugoz also. and there she will meet other animals (like her) hª hªª...

it doesn't matter if it is the scarpi or not.

:-)

[Ravenwing]

Muaddib wrote: FIRST POST!!!!!EDIT: Turns out by the time I finished reading it, Jnmrcs had seized first post.

Quite obviously he's inviting her to rape her. I say rape, because he'd be exploiting her ignorance. She DEFINITELY should NOT go. I think she should talk to her parent set about what she's heard from Peran.

Are you paranoid or something? I don't think Pilla is that ignorant to accept something without some thought. Remember the lushberry cakes from last chapter. It took her while to trust Peran from that point. And even if she were that naive, why would she visit Peran in the first place? Why would she reveal all her insecurities to him at this point? Other than a meeting between two people whose only similarity is that they're are different from the rest, there are no implications of rape I think. Although from Peran's description that his people are a fun and boisterous crowed does not imply anything other than a love of easiness and enjoyment of the world. To me, Peran seems to be the only person Pilla believes she can trust. Besides, what reason would he have to rape her or break the friendship they have started to form?

Anyways, nice new chapater. I see that this chapter does not directly answer the last decision point, but sort of still has us thinking about that decision. I have a feeling Pilla will go see Peran. What he is offering her is something different her people has never experienced. I agree with Fauna that she will probably go to Nugoz. She is a curious creature looking for adventure.

[Muaddib]

Quote: Are you paranoid or something? I don't think Pilla is that ignorant to accept something without some thought.




Pilla's been raised as a robot. She doesn't know about love, desire,lust etc. She probably doesn't even know of deceit.

Pilla might be a robot, but the readers certainly are not. From what I've read in Greek mythology , satyrs were prone to wild promiscous Bacchanailian orgies. In addition we don't know what Peran was banished from his homeland for. He's incited Pilla's interest by giving her cake and now he's tempting her with wine and promises of pleasure...not everyone's good at heart.

Besides that, I believe as a participant in this Storygame, I have a right to offer my honest opinion without being subjected to slander and being contested in the aforementioned opinion by being called 'paranoid'.

[Key]

Thanks for the great comments so far, everyone. In the interests of establishing a common basis for discussion, let me say a little about what Pilla knows and doesn't know:

- Zigot children are constructed by their parents out of wood and metal parts, gears, springs, etc., including some parts that the parents take from their own bodies. However, once they have been constructed, they are not "alive" until they have been "wound." Traditionally the "Winding" occurs when the parents put the constructed Zigot infant onto the roofs of their house, and then at some point the infant's gears start spinning, and the child is able to move. How exactly this happens is somewhat mysterious and has been the subject of debate by Zigot scientists and philosophers; most believe that the Watchmaker or at least some sort of Watchmaker-energy comes from either the Earth or the sun to wind the child.

- Pilla has asked her parents why she was different, and they have told her that they don't know. They constructed her and put her on the roof like any Zigot child, but when they went onto the roof to retrieve her, she was made of flesh and bones. They have always believed that she is a true Zigot, but they also acknowledge that her body is different and that she has different needs, e.g. for animal food. They've imported such things as needed from the Animal Kingdoms outside of Zigoz.

- Pilla's parents do not know that she has been accepted to the Head Institute yet, but Pilla is sure that they will be very proud that she has been and will expect her to take that job. For those who suggest that Pilla should talk to her parents about what Peran has told her, please say what exactly she would be looking for from them, and what she would say.

- Pilla is acquainted with lower animals (i.e. the kind that don't talk ;) ) to a basic degree. She understands their biological functions, including sex. However, she has very little understanding of higher animals' thinking or social customs. As Muaddib says, she has no idea of love, romance, seduction, lust, desire, etc. She has an understanding of deceit in theory (for example, she has played rule-based games involving hidden information) but she doesn't have practical experience of lying or being lied to.

Muaddib wrote: Pilla might be a robot, but the readers certainly are not.
Everyone is welcome to speculate on the storygame using whatever knowledge they have. However, when it comes to suggestions for Pilla's actions, I'd prefer if those are based on what she knows only. That doesn't mean that you can't suggest that Pilla should stay away from Peran if that's what you believe she'd do, but I think it makes for a better storygame if the reasons for that are in-character.

Thanks! Keep the suggestions coming. :D

[Muaddib]

^ My opinion was based on what Pilla might do. I mean if she's brought up in an atmosphere of reasoning and logic, she would not obviously trust this strange satyr straight away.

[jnmrcs]

Muaddib wrote: ^ My opinion was based on what Pilla might do. I mean if she's brought up in an atmosphere of reasoning and logic, she would not obviously trust this strange satyr straight away.

In that you are right. But he isn't a strange for her. I respect what you said and maybe you are right, but my opinion isn't like yours.

[Muaddib]

No harm in that :)
Atleast you're not calling me paranoid.

[Mother Goose]

Of course Peran has sex on his mind - he's a satyr! But Pilla has no idea, and the question is whether her natural caution will keep her from the meeting in the grove.

At least she recognizes that Peran doesn't always say everything he thinks. The idea that there are many races of thinking animals seems to be new to her. (Why is this race so unaware of the others in the wheel, when they all seem to know about each other?) I think she would want to ponder all this new information a while before she meets Peran again and gets overwhelmed with more.

On the decision, perhaps the new horizons he has opened up will swing the balance and entice her into the world of animals.
AS some have said, she doesn't have to prove anything in philosophy now.

[dovesland]

Hello, yes, im a newbie here, but I have a few things I would like to throw out to the group.

1. Pilla is at a critical juncture in her "evolution" the physical touch of Peran has brought new thought processes to her ever exapnding mind, and having no social or experience point of reference to draw from, the evolving human or "animal" the discomfort of confusion is almost like a facination. I see in Pilla an almost adoleceant awakening occuring. One of the things that jumped out at me was her reaction to his touch. Living in a society of "robots" you would not expect to find tender contact. as in chapter two when the hardness of the touch of her teacher was commented on, the tender touch of peran to her face is a whole new experience, but it is clearly more meaningful than the hard knock to her head.
2. yes satyrs are horney little buggers. that is widly known though out mythology, and why not in this state of adolecent like flux would Pilla not be arroused and curious about it. His motives are more animal in nature than hers would be, and what a full human would think of as a more emotional reaction would take a more animalistic urge form. However, satyrs are also known for thier tremendous ability to love. Peran's attempts to reach out to her show an interest in getting to know her, and what some might think of as taking advantage of might just be a simple expression of chemistry.
3. Yes, I feel that Pilla should consider the outpost job, it would take to into a world more attuned to her nature than the dry post in the city....it would make her parent set proud, but in what ways will Pilla be able to expand her own true nature if she simply follows the path made for somone not of her own species?

berate me if you must, but these are my thought on it.

[Chinaren]

Welcome Dovesland, nice avatar. Now, for the berating, er... Okay, how's this: Why didn't you post sooner? There, sorry I can't come up with anything better. ;)

Anyway, now I have forgotten what I was going to say on the story. I liked this chapter more than the others, it seemed to flow more smoothly. Go with the Satyr! Wooo yes.

[ethereal_fauna]

Pilla is educated and smart. Even though Peran's intentions are self-serving, they don't seem to be malicious. I think Pilla is curious enough to meet him, but not foolish enough to be taken advantage of.

I doubt that she'd consider trying to find out more about his past...why he has a price on his head. Her thoughts won't consider that he might be dangerous. Although I wouldn't think that he'd do anything that would get him into trouble with the Zigots. He doesn't appear to have anywhere else to go.

Pilla might consider that she has animal needs, such as the need for animal foods and 'special joint oil' and that might prompt her to explore the satyr's offer further. She knows about 'lower animals' biology, and their reproductive drive. And she knows that 'higher animals' indulge urges that have nothing to do with reproduction. Perhaps she'll consider that she might have this need or want as well, for her own well-being? If not for her health, then out of simple curiosity.

*shrug* I don't see anything about what Peran suggested as particulary wrong or harmful for Pilla. While it might not clear any of her confusion, it'll certainly expand her realm of experience regardless of what happens in the grove.

[Ravenwing]

Muaddib wrote: No harm in that :)
Atleast you're not calling me paranoid.

Maybe my wording was vicious, and I apologize for calling you paronoid. But I still think you went a bit too extreme on the idea that Peran is planning to rape her. He is probably interested in her to some extent, but I don't think he has an ulterior motive, other than friendship.

ethereal_fauna wrote: Pilla is educated and smart. Even though Peran's intentions are self-serving, they don't seem to be malicious. I think Pilla is curious enough to meet him, but not foolish enough to be taken advantage of.

But what I was going for is what fauna has stated for me very nicely.

Mother Goose wrote: Of course Peran has sex on his mind - he's a satyr! But Pilla has no idea, and the question is whether her natural caution will keep her from the meeting in the grove.

I wonder what the machines teach about reproduction. Actually, I am even more curious on how they reproduce. By the way she looks, Pilla would go under the category of being an animal. So although she grew up among machines, I think her instincts are of that of an animal. That being said, I still think she will go see Peran in the grove. She has enough sense, I think to notice danger.

[Smee]

Good chapter. :)

Read it a while ago, but getting back home has been a bit hectic.

Key wrote: she doesn't have practical experience of lying or being lied to.


Her logic of life means she won't even suspect him of lying, at most a mis-interpretation of the middle dialect. I think she will go to the meeting, prepared having had time to process the conversation so far. She will also have a few questions ready; perhaps some more on Gorgos and how to find him. Maybe some about Satyr lore - if it doesn't have a watchmaker, then who made them?

I look forward to the next chapter,

Happy Writing. :)

[dovesland]

yes, yes, yes, questions that were introduced in chapters two and three are now open to answers through the options being presented here. Her studies of philisophy have given her the logical thought processes she needs to discern the truth behind the myths. She is begining to discover not only her own origins, but also the true beginings of the society she was born into. for years, she has been preparing for a life of theory and eternal truth finding, and now she has to deside, "do I go into the safe option my parent set would choose, or do I follow the strange feelings and instincts of my true nature?" The seeds that were planted in chapter three with the introduction of another possible being like herself, the discovery of a hidden text about the watchmaker, and the outpost position full of danger and mystery. These things truly hold her future, where as the safe alternative holds only someone elses past and future. I feel that the next step should be the meeting with Paren, even if it does not take a sexual context, the beginings of true emotion that might awaken within her will be needed if she is to meet with someone of her own race. I wonder too what will be discovered about the "watchmaker" I liked the relation to the fire myth from greek mythology, I wonder what else he was being punished for......

[Key]

Thanks for the discussion. Poll is up!

[LordoftheNight]

voted

[dovesland]

ha ha I voted whoo hoo looks like Peran is a gettin a date! Im keeping my fingers crossed for the little bugger ;)

[saxon215]

its three votes to nill go for gold peran

[Muaddib]

I went with the last option.

I must say I find it hard to understand your reasoning. Maybe its because I'm from the East;over here if someone makes an advance against a girl, the girl tends to stay away. I think its something to do with Western concepts of liberated sexuality, but I don't understand much about that either.

I chose the last option, because no matter what she feels, no sane person gives up years of conditoning immediately. She's been brought up being taught how to reason, that's what she will keep doing atleast for now.

[Ingrothechundyer]

Voted for the last option.

[Ravenwing]

As much as I like to go see Peran, I don't think he can help us any more. He gave Pilla little help when she first met him that I bet this meeting is not going to further help her. My vote goes to skipping the meeting, and go do the animal research.

[Mother Goose]

Voted for the last option. Pilla's whole life has been focused on understanding things intellectually. These new feelings and knowledge have disturbed her, and I think she would want to gain some understanding of what is going on before she ventures deeper.

[saxon215]

Muaddib wrote: I went with the last option.

I must say I find it hard to understand your reasoning. Maybe its because I'm from the East;over here if someone makes an advance against a girl, the girl tends to stay away. I think its something to do with Western concepts of liberated sexuality, but I don't understand much about that either.

I chose the last option, because no matter what she feels, no sane person gives up years of conditoning immediately. She's been brought up being taught how to reason, that's what she will keep doing atleast for now.
but pila doesent undersatnd that she;s being cracked on to does she because she doesent understand all the meaningsd within normal talk so that does kind of undermine the whole guy cracking on to girl girl backing off thing
although D would sympathise with you there, every girlk he cracks on to backs off

[Aino]

Like classic myths which involve a hero (or heroine) who follows a creature or some being into a strange, new place, Peran should lead Pilla into her heroic adventure. Instead of being a sexual predator, I think he is a guide who directs her to go the location where she will meet his past mentor and her future mentor, the one who will introduce her to non-mechanistic thinking, animal history and social sciences, and other animal academic disciplines, which she will use during her adventure as she learns more and more about herself, other flesh-and-blood beings, and mechanized beings.

[Smee]

I guess I'm going to have to fight for every decision point here. ;)

Let's just go to the meeting and experience what we can. Maybe we won't learn that much, but nothing learnt in a book written in Syllogi is going to compare to any proper emotions she experiences with Peran. Plus the research won't have gone anywhere. She can read the research after whilst travelling to wherever she decides in the end.

It may be turn out to be a bad experience, but it's still valuable life experience. I don't think Peran poses any life threatening adventure.

Last minute voters - choose wisely.

Happy Writing. :)

[Ravenwing]

Smee, don't you mean "Peran"? Not to be nitpicky or anything, but for a moment I thought I had misread Chapter 3 when I read your post. :-)

[Smee]

oops :P

[dovesland]

If her academic background is your reason for choosing to skip the meeting would an academic not want as much information as possible before making a decision that will effect the rest of her life? that being said, the opportunity to talk with Peran before choosing her next path would be the logical choise. There is an opportunity here for her to hear more about the person like herself, as well as new information to input into her logic before making her decision. I feel that she will take the option of animal research but meeting with Peran will prepare her better for that journey. Plus what did he do to get exiled? should she not also look into things that she should not do while out in the wilderness? Ive already voted, but I wanted to give a bit more food for thought...

[Muaddib]

Wow 5 votes for the last option! I thought it would be another lone stand for me. Even Ravenwing voted the same!!!!!!!!

[Chainfire]

i just read it key, tis very good. i said to meet the faun, i think it'll be exciting, and he'll be able to teach her some things that her ppl can't.