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The Twin Prince 6: The Voice of War
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Key



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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: The Twin Prince 6: The Voice of War  

The next chapter of the featured storygame "The Twin Prince" has been posted:

Chapter 6: The Voice of War

Discussion and voting are complete for Chapter 6.

For more about the storygame, see the New Players Start Here topic in this forum.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:25 am    Post subject:  

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! first post
i dont know if it is broken for everyone else but that link opens to chapter one for me not chapter six
anyway
difficult decision
Mars seems like an evil creature but what he says makes sense
free the people from his fathers slavery
but all war brings suffering and pain and is evil
can Julius controll war and manage to use it only to free people rather then just replace his father as a dictator?
can mars be trusted?
i dont know which way to vote untill i see what other suggest
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JezSharp
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:50 am    Post subject:  

I'm really not sure which way to go either...

Personnally I'd tell Mars that although I have sympathy with him that I'd need to know more about the wheel before I could trust him.

If Mars is accepted and right then a horrible war will ensue with no gaurantee of victory and even if he is victorius no obvious reward. I f Mars is wrong and he accepts his proposition he has just released the biggest disaster upon the wheel in thousands of years and will have sided with it.

If Mars is right and rejected then he will remain enslaved to his father as will many such creatures across the globe. As Julius's father seems afraid of Julius he could use his new found power to ask questions of Renos/Rene and explore the underground dungeons. It certainly appears he will have more freedom if he leaves to go back into the castle (appearances can be deceptive however). If Mars is rejected and wrong then Julius can explore more about the prophesy and other areas of the castle, still building up his knowledge.

Either way accepting Mars's offer now would be too big a gamble whereas leaving for now and doing further research would be more beneficial (assuming his father will let him - however his father could have attacked him just now so it's unlikely he will suddenly start when they leave the tower.
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solus.serpen
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject:  

Well I'd quite like to hear my fathers argument, whats his view on all of this?
If he cares about his subjects why is he imprisoning them? Is it to keep them safe, like a parent puts a firegaurd around a fire to stop the child from getting burnt?
If so, then does he really want to free them? Does he really want to be free himself?
Ask rene/renos like Jez suggested and explore the dungeons - after he has heard his fathers side of the story.

Solus.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:05 am    Post subject:  

JezSharp wrote: I'm really not sure which way to go either...

Personnally I'd tell Mars that although I have sympathy with him that I'd need to know more about the wheel before I could trust him.

If Mars is accepted and right then a horrible war will ensue with no gaurantee of victory and even if he is victorius no obvious reward. I f Mars is wrong and he accepts his proposition he has just released the biggest disaster upon the wheel in thousands of years and will have sided with it.

If Mars is right and rejected then he will remain enslaved to his father as will many such creatures across the globe.

so either way theres a big bloody war where lots of people suffer or lots of peoople suffer under a tyranical emporer, its a lose, lose, lose situation, we might aswell side with Mars because well theres a chance we wont lose
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:59 am    Post subject:  

Mars' arguement really hasn't convinced me in the slightest. Maybe the Wheel is enslaved, but why should his rule be any greater?

I'd stay with your father, as opposed to starting a war against him.
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dinranwen
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:33 am    Post subject:  

My first instict for this decision point was to say: Go to War. But then I thought, and read the other people's response, and it made me think; Is going to war right?

Let's put ourselves in Julius shoes for a moment:

Julius knows very little about the history, or at least the true history, of the beginning of the wheel. Therefore, it is impossible to know if what Mar's says of it is true or not.

Mars claims that everything in the wheel has been enslaved by Julius' father. This cannot be acertined by Julius as he knows very little about the world outside the Catidel. What Julius does know is that he himself, the emperor's son, is a prisioner. Therefore it could be plausible that the rest of the wheel is also imprisoned, but it could also be reasoned that given the prophecy Zopaster (sp?) just wanted to protect his son, not imprison him.

Mars wants war, that much is clear. It is also clear from the way the creature speaks that he wants war no matter what the end of it. From what I can see, Julius really has only two choices now that Mars is free: Join Mars and hopefully control the war, or Refuse Mars and watch as war becomes Chaos.

Now we've seen Mars side, what of the Emperor's?

Julius knows that for whatever his father's reasons, he has been enslaved and imprisioned by him all his life. However, this imprisionment might be interrupted as fatherly concern and protection.

Julius also knows that his father has been hiding at least one secret from him, could there be more? Nevertheless, now that Julius has found Mars, Zopsater (sp?) seems willing to let Julius take control of the sitaution at least for now.

Personally, I agree with solus.serpen course of action. Julius should confront his father. Ask him if what Mars is true. Ask for brutal honesty. If it is true, give him the chance to change. Offer him the option of surrender without war.

If Julius finds that his father is lying, if his father hides anything from him, or if his father turns on him in front of Mars, join Mars without hestitation.

But I also think that before he asks his father anything that Julius should tell Mars that he will consider his offer but will not agree anything until he can acertian the true nature of the beginning of the wheel.
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:13 am    Post subject:  

Going with Mars would be crazy. Apart from the fact that all his arguments are unfounded, once we'd finish the first war against our father, he'd want more and more war. He's the God of War.

I'm not saying our father is the most trustable guy in the world, but he seems definately more trustable than Mars.

And think about the past. Aenas was a hero, right? Zuspaster probably killed him because he was the good guy, right?

Well, if Aenas was the good guy, why'd he beat up Mars? Because Mars is bad, obviously.

Mars probably belongs to the serpent's children, and that's BAD.
So let him go, and then take command over your father. Gather an army, fight the monster. Be wary of your father.

oh, I almost forgot:

SPAIN IS BASKETBALL WORLD CHAMP!
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Key
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject:  

Thanks for the great responses, everyone. :D After reading these, I realized that I may not have given enough information in this chapter to make for a good decision point. So, in the interests of moving the story along, I added a few paragraphs at the end where Mars and Zuspater make their cases. I'm not trying to push the discussion in one direction or another, I'm just trying to avoid another round of conversation.

So you may want to re-read the chapter, or at least the ending.

:-)
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Chinaren
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject:  

The first question is: "Who would we fight?"

The obvious answer is Zoospitter, his father. If that was the case then, should he win, he would replace him.

Mmm. His father seems to be deferring to him. He is obviously vunerable in some way. So now is the time to strike.

Go for it. Rebel, overthrow his father and crush any opposition like a bug. Set up a new empire and rule with a rod of fear and steel, make his father look like a child's nanny compared to the ruthlessness he will bring.

Mwahahahahaha! :lol:
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:08 pm    Post subject:  

I still haven't changed my opinion. For now, side with Zuspaster to eliminate this threat. Then, maybe we can succeed Zuspaster more peacefully, without bloodshed, before he can betray us.
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Chinaren
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject:  

D-Lotus wrote: I still haven't changed my opinion. For now, side with Zuspaster to eliminate this threat. Then, maybe we can succeed Zuspaster more peacefully, without bloodshed, before he can betray us.

Bah, where's the fun in that. ;)

War!! Carnage! Blooood! Bring it on! :grin:
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JezSharp
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject:  

Doesn't change anything for me - either confront his father now as solus suggested or leave the tower and seek more inforamtion as I suggested.

Alternatively he could try and kill one or the other (actually his father as Mars would be too strong if he can find a weapon) but this isn't really a recommended option.

Alternatively does he need this strees and burden of decision now. Why not run away and live amongst the people, judging for himself whether his father's rule is a justified one and tracing the origins of the wheel. Another thought - Julius's father is already at war against another fraction anyway so where is this peace that he has supposedly brought?
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject:  

JezSharp wrote: Why not run away and live amongst the people, judging for himself whether his father's rule is a justified one and tracing the origins of the wheel.

I like this idea.
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:29 pm    Post subject:  

I'm not sure if this has already been said, but ask your father if he will relinquish the throne to you. Say that you think it would be refreshing for the population, to have a new king, and it would help you decide whether he has been doing good. While you are king keep Mars chained up, and if you find your father has been doing terrible wrong to the people you can release Mars. If you decide to stay as king then your father can always become an adviser- 2000 years of rule should not go to waste.

Make sure you know which of them is telling the truth before you make an unchangable decision.
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solus.serpen
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Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject:  

I like the idea too, but not really something I would vote for.
I think he should talk to rene/renos now and explore the dungeons, as Jez suggested ;).

Solus.

PS, His father's name is Zuspater - there has been some very strange splellings of this.
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject:  

Hey, I just realized! Zuspater: Father Zeus.
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saxon215
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject:  

[quote="solus.serpen"
PS, His father's name is Zuspater - there has been some very strange splellings of this.[/quote]

damn you, i was just about to call him Zoopasta, mmmmm pasta
anyway the extra added bit didnt really help
why not get Zuspater to help Julius kill Mars and then when Mars is dead and Zuspater is weak kill Zuspater
that way you win if either one is right
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject:  

Because not all of us are as bloody-miinded as you.

Pus they're immortal.
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saxon215
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:40 am    Post subject:  

if theyre imortal then why are they trying to kill each other :confused: :confused:
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject:  

Immortal doesn't mean invincible, and doesn't mean they can't be killed.

And btw Key, the site home page still says The Twin Prince is on chapter 4 - you might want to correct that.
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saxon215
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject:  

well if theyre imortal which means that key could kick your ass why bother fighting?
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Argonaut
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:01 am    Post subject:  

Being a Maker gives Julius power of some sort. So far it seems to make everyone think that his decisions are very important. Why this is I don't know because he dosn't seem to have the power to follow through with his decisions. He hasn't been alowed to make decisions until now.

Zuspater cannot beat Mars by himself. So if Julius joins Mars, won't his first act of war be to kill (or imprison if unkillable) Zuspater? Everyonw seems to think Julius can just walk out and do something else while the entire wheel goes to war. If Julius won't join either side are the immortals just gonna let him go? Perhaps... they do still think he's important. But what will Mars do now that he's free? Just fly away a gather an army? Not when his enemy is right in front of him. Mars will certainly attack Zuspater.

The only way to keep Zuspater around is to side with him. If Mars and be re-imprisoned perhaps Julius can discover more of the truth, and maybe even free Mars again if it turns out he was right.
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Key
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:14 am    Post subject:  

lordofthenight wrote: And btw Key, the site home page still says The Twin Prince is on chapter 4 - you might want to correct that.

Thanks, Lordy. Fixed.
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JezSharp
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:21 am    Post subject:  

Quote: The only way to keep Zuspater around is to side with him. If Mars and be re-imprisoned perhaps Julius can discover more of the truth, and maybe even free Mars again if it turns out he was right.

I thought it was only Julius who could free Mars according to the prohphesy so in theory Mars can't get free (he still isn't free and won't get free immediately if we don't release him now as he is still chained althougth less so than when he was 2000 years before.)

Perhaps he will go straight for Z but I think there is more behind this than perhaps meets the eye and so there is probably cannot for some unspecified reason - certainly Z doesn't seem too bothered to be in the same room as a half - free Mars..
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:20 am    Post subject:  

Actually Jez Quote: Mars rips again, and frees himself from the last bond. Mars is free, all that stands between him now is the door.
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JezSharp
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject:  

Ah missed that...well presumably Mars would have attacked them by now if he was going to so just tell him you need time to think over his proposition and leave with his father to either:
i) Explore the dungeons
ii)Talk to Rene/Renos
iii)Run away into the town
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saxon215
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Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject:  

*someone catapults a cow at him*
RUN AWAY!!!!
lol
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Smee
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject:  

Ok... good chapter and good discussion.

Some thoughts of my own.

It seems very strange that - given our father's apparent desires to keep Mars a secret - he'd choose to do that by keeping us 'prisoner' in the castle where Mars is. :?

If that really was his only intention then surely sending us to some obscure corner of the wheel would serve that purpose far better!

There's something(s) he doesn't want us to see in the world either. Double motives of some kind.

Let's look at the prophecy again...

"What he fights, he will master; what he knows, he will set free."

The clue to what I think our action should be is right there..

We need time - so join with our father and we will fight, and master Mars and keep him locked up.

Then we WILL leave, whether father wants us to or not, and see the world for ourselves. If, what I think father is hiding from us, is the suffering of our people then by knowing this we can begin to set them free.

In this case, once again we can fight - this time our father - and we will once again master.

The other possibility - having fought and mastered Mars - we go into the world and discover our father is a much admired King. In which case, 'knowing' this has set us free from our uncertainty about our father and our confinement in the palace.

Prophecies can be 'met' in many ways - it's always important not to set all sights on one possible way of completing it.

Our actions will complete the prophecy, we shouldn't allow the prophecy to dictate our actions too much.

To summarise - master Mars and head into the Wheel.

Happy Writing :)
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JezSharp
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:56 am    Post subject:  

Right ok, some good points Smee...and I fully agree with most if not all of it.

One problem is how does he fight Mars - the prophesy just says 'what he fights he will master'. Does that mean he is just supposed to walk over with his father and chain Mars up or restrain him (note I'm not scorning this idea because in a surreal way it does seem to make sense). It is certainly an iingenious idea - and as neither have attacked him so far the chances of him being able to restrain Mars somehow without harm may be quite good.

Then as I suggested before he should seek to explore and acquire extensive knowledge from Rene/Renos and head out into the Wheel outside.
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saxon215
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject:  

yeah but fight him with what smee, hand to hand combat with a several headed muchly clawed beast of war?
hell i took on 3 dobermans bear handed and that was pretty hard
then again i did start off on the floor with one of them on top of me
the point is iut does seem a little suicidal rushing straight at it
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:55 pm    Post subject:  

It seems the general consensus is that if he wants to defeat either Mars or his Father, he will. As far as I can tell, the sole reason for believing Mars is defeatable, is the prophicy.

Now - I may be mistaken - but we were told the prophecy by our Father (who we don't trust) and Pyphon (who already admitted he may be lying). I wouldn't risk going to battle with a giant beastie, simply on the guarentee of success. On the otherhand, I wouldn't trust him either.
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Key
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Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject:  

Poll's up! :D
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:51 am    Post subject:  

Voted to talk to Rene.
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saxon215
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject:  

i think talked to mars would just sway our vote his way too much, i think go for a walk in the world
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The Powers That Be
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:55 pm    Post subject:  

By my read, Mars has already freed itself (or soon will). Deferring a decision (by, say, choosing to wander the world) is tantamount to freeing Mars to make war (and losing any chance to influence it). So we really do need to make the choice now.

Ok, voted.
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saxon215
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Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject:  

i really dont see what asking julius' dad to relinquish the throne peacefully has to do with anything
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject:  

If Julius can have the throne peacefully then he can see what state the kingdom's in.
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Key
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Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:06 pm    Post subject:  

The poll is closed, thank you everyone for the votes :D

The winning choice was to reject Mars's offer and leave the Citadel, exploring the Wheel. New chapter based on this up Saturday.
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Ravenwing
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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject:  

Darn, I missed the poll. Then again it wouldn't mattered, I would have gone with the majority. It looks like Julius is going to be making a lot of hard decisions. This DP especially was certainly a difficult one to reflect upon.
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