 |
 |
 |
 |
|
| Author |
Message |
Thunderbird
Elder
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Topics: 104
Posts: 2139
Location: Rising from the ashes
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: Open Forum is (no longer) Closed |
 |
|
Due to constant complaints from some IFians regarding what may and may not be posted in the Open Forum, I have determined that unless we can come to some definitions of what is and is not acceptable and clearly express those definitions, we will not have an Open Forum as it seems only to breed discontent to allow free speech on this site.
Additionally, as debates often take a personal tone, the Hall of Debate is locked until this is sorted out. And the City section is locked as well, since that is obviously a place where posts of a personal and often frivolous nature are even encouraged.
I'm asking you, all of you, to now define what is and is not acceptable discussion matter. Where can we draw the line?
_________________
      
 CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...  
Last edited by Thunderbird on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Lilith
Honored Citizen
Joined: 10 Feb 2007
Topics: 82
Posts: 1597
Location: Happily curled up in a Daemon's lap
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Open Forum is Closed |
|
|
| Thunderbird wrote: | Due to constant complaints from some IFians regarding what may and may not be posted in the Open Forum, I have determined that unless we can come to some definitions of what is and is not acceptable and clearly express those definitions, we will not have an Open Forum as it seems only to breed discontent to allow free speech on this site.
Additionally, as debates often take a personal tone, the Hall of Debate is locked until this is sorted out. And the City section is locked as well, since that is obviously a place where posts of a personal and often frivolous nature are even encouraged.
I'm asking you, all of you, to now define what is and is not acceptable discussion matter. Where can we draw the line? |
Pardon me for thinking, like, at all. How dare I even, but isn't that what an Open Forum or General Discussion board is for? So what if people post stuff that's kinda silly or "whiney" even. That's what it's there for. As long as the discussions keep themselves to the site's maturity rating, which I believe is PG-13 unless that's changed as well in my absence, along with the sense of humor and maturity of most human beings, I think this is a tad bit of an overreaction. And a silly one at that.
In closing the people PMing you with their whiny-butt complaints... GET OVER IT and GROW UP. It ain't the Mayor's job to deal with your issues, he's got more important stuff to worry about. Administrating a site takes time, stress and a lot of cussing at the computer screen until it obeys or just kicks you in the gut.
And I beg your pardon for coming across as blunt as a rusty knife but I think that's the only way for people to get it across their thick skulls, and I'm loathe to see this site going silent again for the simple fact people just can't simply grow the heck up.
_________________
© 2007-2019 Lilith
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Amichan
Treasurer
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Topics: 18
Posts: 480
Location: RL:Roseboro, NC./ IF: Retuning from a long journey in the land of OFF
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i have To disagree with your idea on this T bird on the notion that if the issues are being caused one person . we can just deal with the one person instead of punishing all of of the City. In response to Liliths argument i have to agree that the mayor( Thunderbird) has better things to do than entertain complaints .. However i feel that if someone does find something offensive they can petition to have certain content deleted with out any further issue
_________________
Check out the City of IF Facebook page here
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Crunchyfrog
Honorable IFian
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Topics: 168
Posts: 3998
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Open Forum is Closed |
|
|
| Thunderbird wrote: | Due to constant complaints from some IFians regarding what may and may not be posted in the Open Forum, I have determined that unless we can come to some definitions of what is and is not acceptable and clearly express those definitions, we will not have an Open Forum as it seems only to breed discontent to allow free speech on this site.
Additionally, as debates often take a personal tone, the Hall of Debate is locked until this is sorted out. And the City section is locked as well, since that is obviously a place where posts of a personal and often frivolous nature are even encouraged.
I'm asking you, all of you, to now define what is and is not acceptable discussion matter. Where can we draw the line? |
There is no need to define what is and is not acceptable discussion matter. There is no need to close the Open Forum for this purpose. This is because on the whole, we know and follow the unwritten rules of decency and nettiquette online.
I haven't read the Hall of Debate recently so I am not aware of there being any problems in there. I am not aware of there having been any problems in The City! either - where more bloggy style posts are supposed to be.
When problems do arise, which they will from time to time, they should be dealt with on a case by case basis, as sometimes they may need to be handled delicately. Nothing has happened in the Open Forum that would warrant its closure, temporary or otherwise.
TB - you know where and what the issues are. They have not created any activity, so dealing with them won't reduce any activity.
But addressing it by closing the Open Forum will hurt more than help - in more ways than one.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Thunderbird
Elder
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Topics: 104
Posts: 2139
Location: Rising from the ashes
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
@Lilith: Do not assume this had anything to do with your recent petition. That's another matter entirely to me and is just a minor frustration as it seems the world is standing on an illogical head there, nothing more.
@IF as a whole:
My problem is not with one person. It is with every admin/user who feels they have had a right to prune the forum just because there seems to be some unspoken rule of decency that has been breached.
For years, I have silently stood by knowing it was not my place to stand up and shout about how hypocritical it was how Masterweaver and others have been treated here, but I have had vast disagreements neveretheless.
I am enraged by the very thought that anyone thinks they have the right to say what can and should be allowed and what should not. SGs will always be what the site revolves around - everything else is superflous and doesn't do anything to hinder the core.
So why should we allow one person's opinion, be it mine or anyone else's, to claim something should be removed or that it 'isn't what IF is about'?
Many such comments have been made on a great many topics over the years to shut those topics down. I have always found them to be more offensive to me than the topic matter of the 'offending' post, even if I agree that the topic matter WAS worthless... it is more important to me to honor the right of the IFian who posted it to have done so.
So if we can't DEFINE what is ok and what is not, I do not feel I or anyone else will EVER have a right to say what can or cannot be deleted due to stepping on someone's sense of sensibilities.
I guess I feel like saying what they said on a very poignant episode of South Park: Its either ALL ok or NOTHING is ok. We either have an open forum where anyone can post whatever the hell they damned well feel like posting (with the exception of whatever RULES are DEFINED - such as no sexually explicit material) or we shut down the Open Forum entirely.
There IS no easily defined unwritten rules of decency and nettiquette online and if we really tried to define it I think we'll find we can't. Therefore, we cannot logically allow to be arbitrarily determined what can or can't be allowed, otherwise we open the door for personal attacks between members. And I won't be having that. Not on my watch.
Nor will I take part in making personal attacks on IFians simply because I don't like the subject matter they choose to post.
_________________
CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Kalanna Rai
Assassin for Hire
Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Topics: 173
Posts: 3102
Location: The Frozen North
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Obviously I've been missing a great many things during my hibernation. However, this is a somewhat unprecedented step in my rusty memory. Worse, it's a dangerous precedent to set Thunder. If you see an injustice happening, step up and say you won't tolerate it. Do not shut down portions of the site to get your point across. You want us to define what is and isn't okay...well this isn't okay.
Shutting down the open forum got our attention nicely, but we're for the most part reasonable individuals with brains that we can use to rationalize. You have a good idea and good will behind it...but now that you've done this how can we be sure that it won't be used by someone throwing a temper tantrum in the future. And you're telling us that you're honestly just going to remove a chunk of the site people have put time and effort into...did I really come back for this?
Sexually explicit stories, I believe those arrived with Meph, but they didn't explode out of control. People put warning labels on their stuff and life went on business as usual. Same with violence, language, any number of things.
As to the treatment of users. I've been pretty shitty to people in the past, first to admit, and I've apologized to most of them. Hell, I've used their suggestions. As for deleting, when I had the power I used it sparingly. I suppose it would be up to individual authors if they wanted something to remain in their thread or not. Afterall, it's their thread, their baby, and their creation. If they don't want something someone said in it, their right to have it pruned.
Thunder, I'm sad that you didn't ask us as a whole before deciding to do something this drastic but you felt it needed done. I've said my peace and now I'm going to retreat until this either blows over or blows up. Either way...you've changed the site and who knows which direction you've changed it for.
_________________
"It's not just about living forever...the trick is living with yourself forever..."
"Music makes you braver."
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Crunchyfrog
Honorable IFian
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Topics: 168
Posts: 3998
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thunderbird wrote: | @IF as a whole:
My problem is not with one person. It is with every admin/user who feels they have had a right to prune the forum just because there seems to be some unspoken rule of decency that has been breached.
For years, I have silently stood by knowing it was not my place to stand up and shout about how hypocritical it was how Masterweaver and others have been treated here, but I have had vast disagreements neveretheless.
I am enraged by the very thought that anyone thinks they have the right to say what can and should be allowed and what should not. SGs will always be what the site revolves around - everything else is superflous and doesn't do anything to hinder the core.
So why should we allow one person's opinion, be it mine or anyone else's, to claim something should be removed or that it 'isn't what IF is about'?
Many such comments have been made on a great many topics over the years to shut those topics down. I have always found them to be more offensive to me than the topic matter of the 'offending' post, even if I agree that the topic matter WAS worthless... it is more important to me to honor the right of the IFian who posted it to have done so.
So if we can't DEFINE what is ok and what is not, I do not feel I or anyone else will EVER have a right to say what can or cannot be deleted due to stepping on someone's sense of sensibilities.
I guess I feel like saying what they said on a very poignant episode of South Park: Its either ALL ok or NOTHING is ok. We either have an open forum where anyone can post whatever the hell they damned well feel like posting (with the exception of whatever RULES are DEFINED - such as no sexually explicit material) or we shut down the Open Forum entirely.
There IS no easily defined unwritten rules of decency and nettiquette online and if we really tried to define it I think we'll find we can't. Therefore, we cannot logically allow to be arbitrarily determined what can or can't be allowed, otherwise we open the door for personal attacks between members. And I won't be having that. Not on my watch.
Nor will I take part in making personal attacks on IFians simply because I don't like the subject matter they choose to post. |
The days of arbitrarily deleting stuff is long gone. On my watch, I let things be to the point where the posts spoke for themselves - making it clear to all who the idiots and trolls were.
Sure, we had a mod delete something today as a reaction to a post by someone who should have known better - caused by a lack of experience on the part of the mod and lack of thinking on the part of the complainant. These are mistakes that happen. Nothing to shut a forum down over.
If one person complains about something, it's probably a whinge - one for the notebook. If a number of people complain about the same thing, you got to listen, and in all likelyhood, you'll have to act - or there'll be no community left.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
PopeAlessandrosXVIII
Arts and Poetry Mod
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Topics: 122
Posts: 1858
Location: Surrounded by many beautiful naked men
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:38 pm Post subject: My thoughts |
|
|
I'm not really sure what to say on this matter.... It bothers me that parts of the site have been shut down, but I need more specifics as to WHY it got shut down before I feel I can make a valid judgement.
I take no real great issue with bull crap being posted on IF, seeing as the treads themselves tend to get buried in a hurry when no one gives them a second thought. Though, I did see a few threads get re-made, and I mean a complete repeat of an older thread that was now either buried or just low on the list, and that did bug me....
As for deleteing anything as an admin? I feel the rules are already good enough. Abiet, I didn't know the rule, but now that I do, I see it's a great way to go about it. If an arbiter thinks a thread needs to be deleted, moving the text to the council and taking a votee seems like a good idea. Some threads I've seen belong in other places then where they were put, like "What I Learned Today" is a Blog Entry, not an Open Forum topic.
Hall of debat. . . . . . I suppose it was my snapish response on a bad day that gave that complaint precidence. Yeh, I took something personal, but I got over it, as I hope anyone would, but that's not how the world works. There is always a chance, a big one in that forum, that someone will take something persomaly, and that can't be helped. That is why it has the name it has, debate is brought on by conflicting ideas, and conflicting ideas come from differing oppinions, and so on. All of which boils down to belifes, and we all try to defend our belifes. My oppinion, is that the Hall needs monotering, and if a debate breaks down into a fist fight, an admin should step in and tell the parties to take the squable to PMs, but other then that, the Hall should remain open for legit, intelligent, oppinionated battles to take place. Unless someone starts a thread there to Start A Fight and not a Debate, then I don't see a reason to mess with the rules at all.
Open Forum...... I agree that any7thing should be allowed to be posted there, as long as it is really an OPEN FORUM topic. A personal list of "What I ate today" is not an open forum topic, but "What did you eat today" Is. It is silly, and doesn't have any real value other then amuse ment, but it belongs in open forum. The first one, Belongs in a Blog. A recent addition to the open forum was a pice of art. . . . .THAT belongs in the person's ART thread, not in open forum. My solition to stuff like this at least, is me doing my job and moving this stuff to where it really belongs....*Bows* Sorry I have been slacking lately. The post in question, about the diet, I agree that it was not something that people should be reading and trying out. Most active members may be smart enough not to try it, but some may not be, and let us not forget out guests. Something like that post is harmful, and should not be up as a "Here you should try this!" type of thing. Thunder-sama, It's my job(At the moment) to police the Open Forum, and I'm sorry I haven't been. Please open it back up, and I will get back to my job.
The City!. . . . . .As I understand, this is the place for IFian's Blogs......That should never be closed. It is the PLACE for personal stuff that not many people will read, that's the point isn't it? Get your ideas out there, and if anyone feels like popping in with their two cents, then so be it! There is NOTHING (Short of harmful material) that shouldn't be allowed there. Blogs are silly anf frivolis, and should be allowed to stay that way.
So, in my simple oppinion, Open these places back up, and let us take things more slowly. Mor, diplomaticly then we did before. I don't want to hinder Free Speech Thunder-sama, but some things should not be accessable to impressionable minds so easly. I don't want to limit anyhting beyond that, but I do think some janatorial work is in great need as far as MOVEING things around goes. Humans are always going to fight, to whine, and to state thier oppinions, but that isn't the point. The point is, everything has it's place, and some things just don't belong "In reach of children".
I hope I've spoken clearly, seeing as I just got off work and a night without rest beforehand, but I hate to see my beloved city like this. It hurts inside to see such fighting. I don't WANT a repeat of the falls I've seen in the past, and I pray it won't come to that. I love this city, and it's people, and that I have a home away from home where peiople understand my passions, and my silly inability to speel. Heheheheh. I love you all, please ton't let this become a global issue here? We can get over this, we all just need to relax.
Sorry I can't really join the Inn right now. The site still won't let me post more then a few posts before shutting me down. . . . .I will try, and I hope I can help things. . . .Please IFians, don't let us go down this road. . . .
_________________
To Be A Knight
And my first Finished work Death Day
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Thunderbird
Elder
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Topics: 104
Posts: 2139
Location: Rising from the ashes
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | Shutting down the open forum got our attention nicely, but we're for the most part reasonable individuals with brains that we can use to rationalize. You have a good idea and good will behind it...but now that you've done this how can we be sure that it won't be used by someone throwing a temper tantrum in the future. And you're telling us that you're honestly just going to remove a chunk of the site people have put time and effort into...did I really come back for this? |
This IS just to make a point.
I'm tired of us trying to play forum police. I don't intend this to take long before these forums are reinstated but so far nobody seems to be focused and on task here.
We need to establish what we are going to abide by in terms of guidelines as to what can and cannot be posted here. If we are going to allow one post to be deleted because it offends the sensibilities of another IFian, (or 10 other IFians for that matter), than we need to define at least a structure of rules and proceedure for that process so that it cannot be a display of an exclusive little subculture commanding that things be their way or the highway.
| Quote: | | On my watch, I let things be to the point where the posts spoke for themselves - making it clear to all who the idiots and trolls were. |
And this was the only fair way of going about it. Why should this change? However, I'm seeing that we, as a community, are beginning to feel this isn't enough. This is because some don't seem to get the point when they are ignored and hassled that they need to get back onto the main subject (SGs) a bit more or be a parriah. So how can we make the point clear that such a user has gone too far without violating basic liberties?
_________________
CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Thunderbird
Elder
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Topics: 104
Posts: 2139
Location: Rising from the ashes
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your post came in just as I was putting together my last Pope.
I agree with most of what you said there and you made a lot of my points as well as spoke in defense of that which has made me feel we had a drastic problem to address. Thanks for that reflection.
Ok, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say I've just realized that my problem here is simply that I was always on the outs of the 'in' crowd growing up and I feel that now that I'm on the inside of it I want to influence the group to make NOBODY feel on the outs. We get so dang unwelcoming and so critical of each other it drives me up a wall.
We want to check those who step out of imaginary and undefined bounds simply because we think those bounds are so rational and self-evident but who are we to claim ourselves rational?
Along the same lines of thinking, I need to also say, to defend YOU Lil, I should not have moved the City stories without having brought it up for discussion but I did so because I thought the rationale for doing so was completely unchallengable with any sort of logic. And that was wrong of me.
So I'll be happy to open up those forums again but I wanted for us to first take a deep and hard look at what we value in having OPEN discussion realms. If we want everything to stay completely focused on Story Games and we want to check the odd and quirky, sometimes completely false and potentially harmful things some others wish to say, perhaps we should just cut ourselves off from open discussion altogether.
The point I'm seeking to make in all of this is how horrible that would be.
_________________
CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
PopeAlessandrosXVIII
Arts and Poetry Mod
Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Topics: 122
Posts: 1858
Location: Surrounded by many beautiful naked men
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: Well........ |
|
|
We don't want to cut off the odd and quirky, but harmful things NEED policeing. It's not like we are banning anyone from posting, we just need to keep an eye on things that could hurt people. I know, it's a person's choise as to wether or not to do somehting they've read about online, but do we really want IF to be the place they learned how to do it? If I posted how to make a pipe bimb out of simple howsehold materials here, and some 13 year old went out, made one, and blew him/her self the hell up, I'd feel terrible, and I'd be devistated that it was here on IF that that kid learned how to do it.
That is my idea of harmful, and what should not be allowed to be posted. True, a diet plan doesn't sound as dangerous, but it can still sevearly harm people if done without supervision. The world is not Black or White Thunder-sama, so we here can not be either. It can not be "All or Nothing" because that's not how the world works. Again, we are not trying to stop people from posting, we are just trying to keep our citizens and guests safe.
_________________
To Be A Knight
And my first Finished work Death Day
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Bookwizard
Respected Citizen
Joined: 07 Oct 2007
Topics: 33
Posts: 639
Location: Gallifrey
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
OK, all of this is fairly distressing to me because I don't have quite a good feel for what is going on, and everyone seems pretty upset. I mean I love the political side of the city, but that's because more then half of it is Role Playing. There is real venom in some of the things being said here...
As for my thoughts on the Open Forum TB... there is no way to define in any definite way when it is right or wrong to reject what someone is saying. I know EXACTLY what you are saying, and I believe that I think almost exactly like you do in matters like these. If I were in your position, I would have probably done the exact same thing... however, being on the outside of it all I can see a different perspective.
I don't think I can really properly convey my opinion. The best I can say is that it's the Mayer, or Councils job to deal with incidences like whatever this was individually. I know that you can certainly convey a blunt albeit civil explanation for why a post was removed. If it offends even just a few people that is what will have to be done...
-------------------------------------------
A pause of frustrated reflection...
-------------------------------------------
As I'm saying all of this I keep seeing or guessing your responses, and agreeing with them, then reforming my opinion to something else. So thinking further I'm really not so firm on this issue... I see how all sides are justified here in thinking what they do. The one thing I can be fairly certain of though is that you will not be successful in really defining an effective set of rules to make everyone happy.
This is one of those situations with no correct path or right answer. In some cases, somebody will always be isolated and angry, while others are happy. I hate saying this because I do not always fully believe it when I do... but it seems at least for now that is the case in this matter.
You could shut down the open forum to avoid having to confront that fact... but I think to much would be lost, and you would have to confront it in some other place in the future anyway.
There we go, I was able to sort out my muddled thoughts after all.
_________________
Check out some of the following:
 
Last edited by Bookwizard on Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:26 am; edited 1 time in total
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Muaddib
Comrade
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Topics: 30
Posts: 1765
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
1) No matter what you do, you can never control another person's actions completely. Even if you're convinced you know what's right.
2) Internet conversations are always going to be weird because typed words don't contain the inflections etc. that we can discern if we actually talk to people. So, one might see insult or sarcasm where none was actually intended. Also, talking to a person face-to-face adds a level of responsibility in terms of maintaining decorum. That is missing over the internet.
3) It doesn't have to be all or none, we can have rules restricting discussions about sensitive topics (e.g. religion). I would personally tilt against this but would accept the majority decision.
4) Some people just be trolling (  ). You can't filter them out.
EDIT 5) There are some people who are overly sensitive. You have to realize that if you're offering your opinion then that opinion becomes a part of the debate and is open to criticism. Some people may like your opinion and some people may hate it. You have to be thickskinned when participating in debates.
EDIT 6) Thunderbird, as an elected representative I don't think you have to take a referendum on everything. I believe you were elected because your personal thought process reflects the thought process of the majority on the site. Therefore any unilateral action you take as Mayor would implicitly be the will of the majority. That is until someone calls for your head...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Thunderbird
Elder
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Topics: 104
Posts: 2139
Location: Rising from the ashes
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am returning the Open Forum.
But what this has been about has been to make a clear statement of my stance on these issues. I will not tolerate an IFian being picked on because you don't like what they have to say. I don't always like what people say either. But I value that they have the right to say it. I don't think the point needs to be made any louder.
Now, not everything is going to always be inoffensive. I understand this. If you don't like what you see, I invite you to open a back room discussion via pm or, if you are on the council, in the council chambers. But even more preferred... don't comment on it. After a time we'll come back around and clean up inactive threads.
And I think that's something we should be doing in the Open Forum now is a bit of a review.
As an additional note: To all IFians, PLEASE be considerate to one another, and this includes what you post. Try to consider how your subject matter may be received before sending us every random thought that occurs to you. We invite your thoughts, sure, but there comes a point, a point that's impossible to define, where it gets intolerable to continue to put up with incessant useless commentaries. Please stay at least a little bit on topic, even if that topic is just to share friendship.
I apologize to anyone offended by my actions today, but I wanted us all to consider how we treat each other here before moving forward. This was a message to all sides and a timeout for consideration.
_________________
CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Crunchyfrog
Honorable IFian
Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Topics: 168
Posts: 3998
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thunderbird wrote: | | Quote: | | On my watch, I let things be to the point where the posts spoke for themselves - making it clear to all who the idiots and trolls were. |
And this was the only fair way of going about it. Why should this change? However, I'm seeing that we, as a community, are beginning to feel this isn't enough. This is because some don't seem to get the point when they are ignored and hassled that they need to get back onto the main subject (SGs) a bit more or be a parriah. So how can we make the point clear that such a user has gone too far without violating basic liberties? |
You nail the problem directly with that person, instead of letting it lie until the point where other people get completely insensed by it and have to take matters into their own hands, and then shutting down an entire forum as a result of their actions, citing an entirely different problem - one that only you seem to percieve pervades now, but hasn't done so for years.
Let me know when the REAL problem has been dealt with.
Over and out.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Andolyn
Mayor's Ambassador
Joined: 18 Apr 2011
Topics: 20
Posts: 852
Location: sitting barefoot in a tree in the beautiful land of Ardara, writing my tales...
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This all comes down to simple maturity. If you KNOW something is going to be offensive to you ((and you are easily offended)) DONT GO THERE. But there are those among us who like to stir up trouble for the simple joy of stirring it up. Myself? I don't browse the open forums because that's not why I'm here. If something pops up on the sidebar that I think might be interesting, I check it out, but otherwise, I tend to stick to the games. Hall of Debate? Not my style, so I stay away all together. I'm not easily offended, but I don't much enjoy debate as it tends to accomplish nothing but wearing a circular hole in the floor from people going around and around with one another.
That being said, an open forum should be just that. OPEN. Any topic goes ((explicit material appropriately labelled, of course)) and any reply to any topic goes. As others have said, if something displeases you, MOVE ON. Don't reply and stir the pot, so to speak, and don't go whining to the admins. The same would apply to the Hall of Debate. Offensive things will be discussed. If you are particularly touchy on a topic, STAY OUT OF THAT DISCUSSION. Sounds easy enough, right?
Now it's just back to that little matter of maturity...CAN we just move on and let it go, or do we whine and stir the pot? If it's the latter, I prefer a simple colby-jack cheese with my "whine" if you would be a dear and hand me a piece...
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Tikanni Corazon
Honored Citizen
Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Topics: 75
Posts: 1286
Location: Running through the plains of my mind, my wolf spirit at my side (but doing so in the UK!).
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 12:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
*enters the debate very reluctantly* Such things as this are really not my forte...
I think a nail has been hit on the head there, but not quite in the way that one would think. Because, as previously mentioned by Pope, some of the people who use this site aren't 'mature'. There are plenty of youngsters who come on the site too, and, though I have no issue with just random crap being posted up, if there is anything potentially harmful in the content of a thread (such as one that has been discussed by the Council recently) then something needs to be done about it, not to be bullying or judgemental, but merely to protect those who possibly don't have the sense to just walk on by. I have a younger sibling who uses IF, and though I wouldn't ever say that she's ever been one of those to have gone along with any of that kind of thing, it doesn't stop me from being mindful of the possibilities. And also, looking back on the kind of teenager that I was, I'm only too well aware that there are definitely those out there who will be very easily influenced by such content.
I don't think that such issues are petty, and those that are should, yes, be left alone. If they're not doing any harm, other than to subtly annoy or cause slight offence to people, then yes, as Andi said, people should just walk on by and ignore it. But if it's more than that, then that approach isn't enough. As has also been said, it's not just black and white, there are also shades of grey in between. But maybe that could also be dealt with in a more kind and caring manner. Maybe, if it's decided by the mayor/council that a thread possesses such content, the writer of said thread can be informed of it, and given an explaination as to why it's been removed in the first place. It doesn't have to be made a hugely public thing if we don't allow it to, and therefore will not become a subject of discrimination or bullying. I've dealt with both during my life, and I would not want such a thing inflicted upon another, and so wouldn't make a suggestion that might result as such.
Anyway, that's enough from me I think...
_________________
.... there is no religion without love, and people may talk as much as they like about their religion, but if it does not teach them to be good and kind to man and beast, it is all a sham....
Black Beauty by Anna Sewell, 1887
 
 
  
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Shillelagh
Citizen
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Topics: 20
Posts: 398
Location: Kansas
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
As far as this specific issue... I propose we look at it from a different angle. What if we limited the number of threads that a person can have open in this forum? Or if we limited the number of threads you can create within a given period of time?
Obviously, this is something that would have to be overseen by a moderator... and even then, it would probably have to be loosely enforced. But it would prevent the textual diarrhea that has infected the Open Forum as of late. It would also control the content to some extent- if you are only alloted so much to say, you're not going to waste it on something questionable.
This isn't anywhere close to a perfect solution... but maybe it will get people thinking?
_________________
Ihniwid Chapter 5 is up- find it here!
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Guest
Items
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If people are offended by the open forum, I believe you guys can make two open forums, The Dark alley open forum (age restricted) and the light open forum. And if you ever refer to me or anyone else as "The one Person" They'd feel really offended because your not directly confronting them, they have age restricted lines figurativly. And sometimes words do hurt lilith, sometimes it hurt so bad you start eating like you can't stop or you don't eat at all... Or people ignore you or shun you away, and I've seen since 2005 how you guys been treating people sometimes. That is why I'm enforcing the rule to help each other out. Lilith was strong and she usually was the one to call me back when I wanted to run away from all my problems. Now it's Thunder and alot more people standing up and directing the problems in a postitive manner I am proud to see people are growing up.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Whisperer
Resident
Joined: 09 May 2007
Topics: 1
Posts: 41
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To all the people who have chimed in about the diet thread, how many of you actually read the post?
This diet has been around for many, many years, and used for many reasons. It is a great way to drop a few kilos in a hurry for a special occasion or because of the cabbage soup that needs to eaten, it is a great cleansing diet. It is no more harmful than the influential ditzy celebrity who says they have given up eating meat and carbs. BBS did not post the diet so it could be easily followed, on one of the days you had to eat Beesmeat, for f’s sake.
If some teenager read that thread and was stupid enough to want to go on the diet, well then it is up to their parents to stop them. Being posted on this site is no different to any diet that is published in a magazine. They all say the same thing, consult a doctor before commencing any diet, (and we all consult a doctor, don’t we?).
It seems there was also a problem with the pic that was posted with the story, well I didn’t see it, (comp graphics problems), but from what TB has told me about it, it is no worse then what we see when we walk out our front door and look down at the swimming pool. Just makes you thankful that you are not that big, (unless you are, of course).
As for TB’s attitude in relation to BBS and the way she is treated by some on this site. TB has a soft spot for people who are ‘damaged’, and so, yes, this does make him more tolerant. And if any of you are ever in the position of having the City of IF lynch mob after you, you might just be lucky enough to have him in your corner. I always thought myself an intolerant person, but the attitude of some on this site takes intolerance to a whole new level.
As for all the other threads started, the first thing most of you need to do is:
Get rid of the person standing beside you with the shotgun at your head, who is forcing you to read posts you are not interested in. And then….
Build a bridge and get over it.
_________________
SWMBO
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Muaddib
Comrade
Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Topics: 30
Posts: 1765
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think that personal attacks should be off-limits. But at the same time, we should have the right to criticize posts. For example, if we're reading a storygame and the plot doesn't make sense or the editing is poor then we should have the right and responsibility to point out those errors to the author, regardless of the author's sensitivity to criticism.
With regards to the weight loss thread: if this site is PG-13 and sex and drugs references are off-limits then why not fad diets. In my opinion dangerous diets are just as harmful to young minds as gratuitous references to sex/drugs.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Cyberworm
Respected Citizen
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Topics: 5
Posts: 652
Location: Spatially found, temporal lockdown.
Items
Legends
Fables
Strata-gems
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
To put my 2 cents in, I first have to say that most everyone here has a point or two that coincide with my own view on the matter.
First, I believe in free will. That means free will to read what one wants, and say what one wants. Also, to criticize.
Secondly, I believe in human decency. If you cannot say it in a nice/positive way, don't say it. There's a difference between saying one's writing is crap and that the work needs some major improvements. You can make both sound equally serious and with no need for actually hurting the person.
Thirdly, more related to the diet posted. As all serious matter potentially dangerous or offensive it needs to have a warning, put in the thread title if possible. If a person would choose to ignore the warning and utilize the information even after seeing/reading the warning, they have put the responsibility on themselves for whatever happens because of it.
Now, as a precaution I suggest that a system is devised that a junior member seeking information of that kind must search for it through a senior member. Senior by age. Something like a librarian/checker. I'd volunteer for that line of work. A junior member would send a PM regarding the specific thread he/she would want to access, and the librarian would see if it is correct for them to use it or not. The age restriction system would work well in this case.
If that is way too much work for such a matter that would in normal conditions only require the maturity of everyone present, feel free to use the idea to any extent and with needed modifications or not use it at all, depending on its passability.
There was also a suggestion of limiting the number of posts/threads started per day for a single person. I'm not sure about limiting the number of posts, but limiting the number of threads that can be started in one day sounds like a very good idea to me. I realize that some members are following quite a number of stories though, so it's a grey area and it requires some contemplation.
_________________
Slit and Slide
One man's journey through the possibilities of solving what he says is a murder. What was it? Try not to forget.
Beyond Good and Evil
Could it be that being good is not good at all?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
