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City of IF -> Finite Cosmos - COMPLETE

#1: Polling Chp18 Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:58 am
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** Chakra has the Great Knowledge, and it is a heavy burden. The world is merely a fragile dream, constructed and maintained by an artificial intelligence. Existence is possible only because of the dreamers, and the dreamers are steadily dying. What does Chakra do now? Return to Diasis with this sorry news? Ask Holden to end their lives? Run away and pretend she doesn’t know that the end of the world is rapidly approaching?

Final decision…make it a good one! **

How does Chakra handle the Great Knowledge?
Keep it secret, run away and begin new lives 0
Return to Diasis and share what you know with the Elders 0
Attempt to rescue your friends in Aetna, then return to Diasis 2
Plead with Holden to end your lives 1
Attempt to contact the Dreamers 5
Ask Aayii to 'backup' the MotherSea and place the world on 'pause' 2

Last edited by ethereal_fauna on Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:32 am; edited 2 times in total

#2: Author: Shady Stoat, Location: England

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:08 am
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Ahh. Carver's makes more sense now Smile

Is there any way that the dream-forms can become the dreamers? A sort of ouroboros loop, where a fraction of the dream keeps the rest of it alive?

If so, Chakra and Holden could give up their existence for the good of the rest of the world. Or they could return to their friends and ask them all to volunteer to sleep within Aayii's power, to keep the Mothersea world from disappearing forever.

One should return, to keep the knowledge alive so that future generations can make the same sacrifice.

If none of that is possible, I'll think on it some more. It seems to me the first question she would ask, after the despair had lost its urgency, though. Cool

#3: Author: luvd,

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:40 am
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Oo lovely. lovely chapter Very Happy

I love twists like that Very Happy

I say they should just go and make new lives away from everything to see out the last days/years of the world. This knowledge isn't going to help anyone so it's "do you leave the world in ignorant bless or is it best to know your own death?" In the end as she now knows it really doesn't matter, the end will be the same no matter what. I love philosophical stuff :biggrin:

Fantastic chapter Clapping

#4: Author: Smee, Location: UK

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:51 am
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Great chapter and great twist. Very Happy

Finally we know the Great Knowledge...and whilst it's certainly very important I can't help feeling her disappointment at not being able to save her people like she was led to believe the knowledge could do.

I like Stoat's thinking, I'm sure she'll begin looking for a way although dreams becoming physical is a stretch. Many minds can find solutions where a few can't, maybe she should return home and see what can be done.

One option - Maybe there is a way of communicating with one of the dreamers? The A.I is directing the dream, but it's the dreamers dreaming it. If there minds are active enough to dream them maybe also communicate. I can't see how it will help but knowledge is power - there may be a way.

Whatever happens, I don't see her just giving up after all that she has been through.

Happy Writing. Smile

#5: eh Author: jess1561,

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:53 pm
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This is a hard decision, I don't want the world to end :'( I want to see Holden and Chakra have a life together and see their child be born...
What would happen if Holden tryed to end their lives and they ended up somewhere on another world? Is that possible? I think Chakra should spend as much time as she can with Holden and then have him end thier lives. :'(... I don't want to see how this ends, I don't want it to end. Sad

...

:sigh:

-Jess

#6: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:46 am
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I appreciate the thoughts and responses so far. Smile

I don't see how the people of the dreams can take over for the dreamers. Perhaps if you could suggest a solid way, a means to get the incorporeal people of the MotherSea through the Windows Between the Worlds, and into the corporeal realm...

If we could communicate with the dreamers, what should we ask them, or what should we say? Don't die- doesn't seem useful. Cool

But it might be worth the effort if we could find a clear reason to do it. Also consider, the dreamers are nothing more than human, and were violent criminals. They have been in stasis for billions of years...long enough for the first omnicellular little critters of the MotherSea to evolve into intelligent life. What's really left of them now, besides their guided thoughts?

With Chakra and Holden being transported into a different world through Oblivion...where could they go? They are only the manifestations of the dreamers. Perhaps they could live on in a different realm, but how would that be maintained if the Keeper can't sustain this dream on her own?

Good discussion, good thoughts! Keep it up. I'm still open for more.

#7: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:25 pm
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Nice plot twist. Definitely was not expected in my opinion. Now what to do?

You give us a difficult decision point, fauna. Like you said if Chakra and Holden do contact the dreamers, what would they ask? Maybe something about their world?

I personally think Chakra should ask what the people in the dream world think about this predicament. Chakra does need to hold the whole balance of the world on her shoulders. Maybe it is time for their world to end, and for them to start some place new. In some way it is ending already with the dreamers' deaths.

And what exactly do Chakra, and all like her represent in the dreamers' mind? Are they manifestations of what these dreamers' hoped to gain from their crimes?

#8: Author: luvd,

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:15 am
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ethereal_fauna wrote:

I appreciate the thoughts and responses so far. Smile

I don't know, I love Smee's idea. it reminds me of one of Grant Morrison's scripts (he's a playwrite and comicbook writer. And on of my favourt arthors. Find some of his stuff, the man had some imagination. I'll have to find some of his new stuff I think.). It was his last script when he was writing the comic AnimalMan in which he had it that they met resulting in the debate between creation and creator. We could have the same sort of thing here where Chakra has to expalin to the last dreamers what has happened as I doubt they have a clue.....but then again perhaps lets not do that.

#9: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:27 am
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We don't even know how the dreamers would react if they were told what was happening to Chakra and her people. They could laugh and brush the whole idea off maybe.

#10: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:49 am
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At this point how much of the dreamers would really be left? They have been in stasis billions of years...long enough for the MotherSea to evolve life into something intelligent and complex.

The AI simply uses their dream energy, their creativity and essence if you will, to shape the world of the MotherSea. Without the dreamers, the machine can't sustain the world. It has an artificial intelligence, a way to think and reason of sorts, but lacks the genuine human factor required to create.

Contacting the dreamers would be interesting to write, and is certainly plausible. I'm enjoying the thoughts you are all presenting. Thumbs Up

Keep the discussion going.

#11: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:08 pm
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Wait a minute, I am confused

Are Chakra, Holden and all who live with them AI? So if they can't excatly create, how did they become to exist in the first place. Did the dreamers "dream" them up so to speak?

If the AI can make something this complex, does that mean they have to use a lot of dream energy to make it up? If they simplified their world, would that sort of decrease the destruction of their world for a little bit of time?

#12: Author: Shady Stoat, Location: England

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 3:55 am
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I think, when all's said and done, the decision here is not whether or not we pass from existence, but how we choose to.

As a wise old chamber-pot once said:

Key wrote:

you can't always choose what happens to you, but you can always choose to act with dignity

I think, if the world is going to end, we should attempt to rescue our friends, return to the homelands and share the knowledge. Then, at least we have each other to share our sorrow with. Aayii needed someone to share its sorrow, as do we.

Perhaps we can prepare for our own passing. Perhaps we can spend the time saying goodbye to the things we love. Death comes to us all eventually and after despair comes acceptance. At least, in this way, every being of this world can choose how they wish to depart. It's a chance not everybody gets Smile

#13: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:19 am
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Chakra and the rest of her world are not AI. They are the product of the dreamers' creativities and likenesses, guided by Aayii. They can only manipulate their world in the same manners we can manipulate ours (with a bonus of magic Wink

) so there is no real way to 'simplify' the world or relieve any burder on the dreamers.

I like the quote Stoat Very Happy

and the thoughts posted along with it. Much can be said for the act of dying with dignity.

#14: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:36 am
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A clarification from the author! Thanks, fauna. I guess that shows I shouldn't read posts past midnight.

I think earlier I said the same thing Shady here is suggesting. Chakra shouldn't feel obligated to save her world. This world includes all of her people, and she should inform them of the impending doom. The last moments with a person are usually the most memorable.

#15: Author: luvd,

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:06 am
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Shady Stoat wrote:

I think, when all's said and done, the decision here is not whether or not we pass from existence, but how we choose to.

As a wise old chamber-pot once said:

Key wrote:

you can't always choose what happens to you, but you can always choose to act with dignity

Bum's to that. Big hairy bums!!! When it comes to my time I'm going out kicking and screaming like the way I came into the world. When I see the Grim Reaper, I'm kicking him/her between the legs and legging it. My gods I'll even throw a little old lady at him/her shouting "Take the old bag! She's well pass her sale by date! I'M TOO PRETTY TO DIE!!! AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!" and then hid under a table. You can tell I've really put some thought into my passing.

#16: Author: jess1561,

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:06 pm
—

Shady Stoat wrote:

I think, when all's said and done, the decision here is not whether or not we pass from existence, but how we choose to.

As a wise old chamber-pot once said:

Key wrote:

you can't always choose what happens to you, but you can always choose to act with dignity

I still don't want to give into the apocolypse... It's hard to feel like you're a part of a story that ends like this... Tis why I'm having a hard time thinking of what I think needs to happen.

The great knowledge said that the world would end, but not how soon, maybe Chakra and Holden's baby will at least be born before this happens... What if they were to have twins or triplets that were dreamers? Wouldn't that be enough to sustain life for awhile longer? Or maybe Chakra and Holden can find the others and plan a way to find the current dreamers and maybe they would be able to help them...

If that is not possible then I completely agree with Shady Stoat. (You seem very wise Wink

)

Just finished reading Good vs. Evil vs. Money so I actually got that reference to Key *smiles contently*

Now, all I can do is wait for a responce...

-Jess

#17: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:32 am
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For as complex and real as the MotherSea world seems, it is not actually substantial in comparison to the dreamers' world. The concrete machine housing the AI needs the physical bodies, the actual mental impulses of the dreamers to sustain the dream. Nothing from the dreamed world can take the place of the dreamers.

Although the great knowledge did not say how long before the world ended, the death of the dreamers appears inevitable. There are options for what Chakra can do in the meantime.

I understand it must be difficult to jump in right at the end of a storygame and feel involved, especially when the game appears to have no happy ending. But ultimately the game is what the players make of it, despite the challenges imposed by the author. Smile

#18: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:42 am
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Quote:

I understand it must be difficult to jump in right at the end of a storygame and feel involved, especially when the game appears to have no happy ending. But ultimately the game is what the players make of it, despite the challenges imposed by the author.

Well said, fauna. *claps* Being an author of a storygame is diffifult since you have to listen to the readers. Well, I am going to wait until I hear other options from other players until I make my choice. Chakra seems to be able to do a lot, but it may not help with the survival of her people most likely. Sounds sad yes, but in the end, at least Chakra tried.

#19: Author: Shady Stoat, Location: England

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:47 am
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Just a last, random search for a fluffy bunny Wink

Aayii cannot currently keep the entire 'program' of Mothersea running.

It is presumably all stored in her memory somewhere though. It is only the energy to keep it running that she lacks. How about if she freezes her program right here, right now, leaving it until such time as new dreamers turn up, or someone else discovers Aayii and works out how to make use of it.

We put the game on 'pause', so to speak, until a new set of batteries can be found.

Of course, we run the risk that no new batteries will come and that Aayii will simply cease to be in time. But that's no real risk at all, considering that the end of times is coming for our people anyway.

I'm not sure whether I prefer this idea to the idea of dying with dignity, but it's up there for consideration Smile

#20: Author: Chinaren, Location: https://www.NeilHartleyBooks.com

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:18 am
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I hear Duracel are good.

Anyway, f5 old McStoatsky.

#21: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:58 pm
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I personally like Energizer myself. Cool

Stoat here has an interesting concept. I would go with it. Let's just hope it would give us enough time to figure a better solution for the long-term. Also we have to keep in mind about how long it takes for a new dreamer to appear.

#22: Author: Smee, Location: UK

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:39 pm
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I don't think they'd be any figuring some other plan out - if they 'game' is paused everything in the Mother Sea would be paused and stay that way indefinately until a dreamer appears or the AI disintegrates.

#23: Author: luvd,

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:04 am
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But there are outside characters now, these Creators. But then also now we know the world is subjective on the energy created from the dreamers, so if all the matter is sustained and is subject to it. If so then why not time? Time itself is by it's nature subjective, what is 1000 years to one thing is only a blink to another (universally speaking) all depending on how it perceives the passing of time. Who knows how long the world has really been in existence. So more dreamers can turn up as from the perspective world billion of years might have passed but from the "outside" universe only a night has really passed....ok it doesn't help the story Confused

But then having more dreamers still doesn't solve the problem, all it's going to do is delay it. The world is still only the matter of dreams, it still can't sustain itself. But how do you deal with the fact that you and everthing you believe is not really "real". This itself is far more dangers philosophically speaking. Chakra and Holden might be depresssed at the thought but after a while when you realize nothing is real, nore are you..... Again doesn't help the story but Laughing

#24: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:20 am
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The realization that you're not substantial, but just a part of someone else's mind is quite a shock. I think the options we have are all great. But I don't think there is a possible solution to save the dying world really. Which is too bad because I am beginning to like it a lot.

#25: Author: Chainfire,

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:32 pm
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even though they are insubstantial and know they are doesn't take away their desire to live. life is how you perceive it, they believe they are alive therefore they are. I think they should use the rest of their time together to do everything they ever wanted to. Go and save the others then wander the world, discover everything you didn't know was there. if they have enough time they should have the child and celebrate the life coming in, even if it is just to die soon.

#26: Author: luvd,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:34 am
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Ah but when you realize everthing you've believed in is a lie changes your perception. We've already touched on this in the story with the persona Tesla. Tesla was a person in her own right with her own life and an impact on the world yet we got rid of her coz she wasn't real. So when you find out that what you thought was the real world is also the lie then your left with doubt. We can see this in action in the real world (sounds funny to say that in this story Laughing

) when you deal with someone in their late 20's/early 30's with a little thing called selective nostalgia. People doubt that it's real, but those people are already suffering from it. Challenge someone with selective nostalgia and see the pain in thier face Laughing

Oh and a note to all young people. You too will suffer with selective nostalgia Mad

It's not a good thing, it dulls the mind and stops you understanding. Fight reality kids. Trust noting, including yourselfs Very Happy

#27: Author: luvd,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:38 am
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Remember this isn't a belief we are dealing with, it's the truth. You can't go on with life as if it doesn't matter. It's like trying to live a straight life when you know your gay. or be a priest when you KNOW there is no god/afterlife/heaven/hell...ect So when you KNOW life isn't real how do you pretend?

But saying that, if you know that your life is a lie and there is nothing else then that makes the lie the only truth. Which ironicly means that the life you've had up till now is the true reality. So basically nothing has change as in reality children are still born, cry, grow and breath. Leaving only one real choice and that's to live life too the full :biggrin: So from my little mad philosophically spinning dance I arrive at the same thoughts as Chainfire Smile

Last edited by luvd on Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total

#28: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:43 am
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For Chakra her life has been real. Doomsday doesn't change that. She's suddenly left with the shock that her world is going to end, and the truth of the origins of her universe.

#29: Author: luvd,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:53 am
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So we've left (after the "I think there fore I am...or am I" mad dribblings from me) "what do you do when you know your going to die." I have to say I'm with Chainfire, knowing all things are to end really doesn't really change anything :biggrin: Go out find her friends, have the child and live life. My gods this real isn't world isn't real but only perceived and it's not stopped me living it Razz

#30: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:58 am
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I should get a poll opened later day for everyone to start voting on. I'm just happy that my first little effort at a SG has made a few people think Smile

#31: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:03 am
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Final poll is running. Cast your votes and determine the ending chapter to my initial effort at storygaming.

If you choose to contact the Dreamers or to ask Aayii to 'backup' and 'pause' the world, please post and elaborate more on what you want to gain from that. I'll consider all suggestions and ideas as I write the terminal chapter.

Feel free to offer more comments, ideas, kudos and criticisms. Again, I'll consider everyone's opinions as I write.

#32: Author: Smee, Location: UK

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:29 am
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I voted for try to contact the dreamers.

What would I like to achieve...

If communication is established, then first of all, see if the dreamers have any ideas, or have any grasp of how long they may yet survive.

Maybe not using any more magic will give them extra time (the magic perhaps draining the dreamers life energy?)

Maybe using more light magic sustains them, whilst darker magics sap their strength?

Whatever they suggest, then complete as best as possible.

Otherwise, I think it's a useful opportunity for some kind of closure - sharing the sorrow. Maybe thank the dreamers for the time we've had and share some of the joys/wonders of the world they sustain.

With no further options she should rescue her friends and make her way back to Aetna. There could be millenia left, or a matter of days so she should do as Luvd mentioned - live life to the full with the baby and friends.

A fantastic story - but you'll get more of this after the final chapter. Very Happy

Happy Writing. Smile

#33: Author: luvd,

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:48 am
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Contact the dreamers might be a good idea, they might know more about what is/has happened. The AI might seem like a all knowing goddess but it is still only a AI. Who knows what knowledge they really hold. Anyway as it's all their fault they might as well be told whats going on.

Chakra:"...and from all that energy all has grown into a wonders world of life and beauty."

Dreamer: "My gods. Such a wonder, who would have thought such a thing could and has happened. Can we leave this place and walk on this land?"

Chakra:".....Well...er... you see that's the little problem we find ourselfs in..."

:biggrin:

#34: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:43 am
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I really like Smee's suggestion that there be some closure in this story. Maybe it is time for the imaginary world to end. It goes to show that all good things are meant to end soon. And that end could happen anytime. Thanking their creators would be a good point to end life I think. A depressing thought, but a good stopping point nonetheless.

#35: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:45 am
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Oh shoot, I forgot to vote, and I clicked the reply button. Oh well. I am going for contacting the Dreamers.

#36: Author: jess1561,

Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:34 pm
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When is the next chapter to be posted? :hm: I'm looking forward to it Smile

...

-Jess

#37: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:28 pm
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Real life really kicks in sometimes. I should know being a student and all. Anyways, I am going with Jess, when's the next chapter? Now why I am saying that, when that same question is probably being shot at my head? Cool

#38: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:01 am
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I'll be working on the final chapter once I return from my global wanderings. Smile

#39: Author: Ravenwing, Location: Virginia

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:15 pm
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May we inquire where you are at the present? I am guessing someplace where you have little computer access. Cool

#40: Author: ethereal_fauna, Location: USA

Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:46 am
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I had computer access, but not so much time or inclination to write. I am home now, though, and should have a new chapter out soon. Smile

City of IF -> Finite Cosmos - COMPLETE

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