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#1: Characters : Something to think about. Author: Smee, Location: UK

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:42 am
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Characters

Almost no stories are without their characters, and they come in so many different forms it is impossible to detail them all. Typical examples include the hero, the anti-hero, the villain, the love-interest, the comedy side etc etc.

But very recently I came across another term used to describe one subsection of characters that I hadn't heard of before, although once I had read a definition it became very clear. To have such a character type in your story is often (although not always*) considered rather a bad thing.

I am talking about characters know as 'Mary Sues', or their male counterparts, 'Gary Stus'.

I'm by no means an expert. You can find all the details about them I know from one Wiki page and please do go there if you want to know more. It describes Mary Sues in very great detail.

So what are they?

A full definition can go on for a while, but fundamentally they are characters that are way over the top. Often they are perfect in face and figure, capable of great skills under tremendous pressure and are just so all round perfect it gets under the readers skin and they grow to resent or even hate them.

No challenge is a challenge. No trial too hard to overcome (often though with just a little anguish thrown in to try to disguise their 'MarySue-ness')

But such a cliche isn't the whole essence of a 'Mary Sue'. Part of what defines them is the authors aren't aware of this, and actually really like the characters, pushing them on their auidence at every opportunity. Mary Sues are described in the wiki as being a sort of 'author's pet'.

A fairly good example in the Wiki, of a pretty famous 'Gary Stu', is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek. A minor character, given excessive abilities, screen time and plots for someone of his age and rank, to the point it becomes unrealistic. Simply because the show's authors evidently liked him so much they just kept pushing him into the stories.

Other examples (if Star Trek isn't your thing) include Eragon, from the Inheritance series, and from the Twilight series, Bella Swan and Edward Cullen.

There's one other aspect of Mary Sue-ness that I want to mention. Author's commonly write themselves into their stories, and unconsiously can make them larger than life characters, with characteristics that they either wish they had themselves or exaggerated versions of their own qualities. Leading to the formation of a Mary Sue.

Learning all this made me think. Are my own stories rife with Marys and Garys? A worrying thought. I certainly have tried to make my characters deep(ish) and 3D. I've tried to avoid the typical cliches. But do I see myself as Trengin-like? (One of my characters). Have I made him into a Gary Stu.

Not something to worry about now, but something to bear in mind next time I sit down to write in a new character. I need to ensure they are realistic. That any abilities they have, whether natural or mystical, are suitably explained and justified within the suspension of disbelief allowed in whatever genre it is. That they have weaknesses, flaws. That the women don't all have blonde hair and large breasts, and the men don't all have 'rugged good looks'. Am I showing excessive favour to any one particular character? etc etc.

I could have spent more time on this, and made it into a real essay, but that's not my goal. It's just something to think about.

Happy Writing Smile

*There's always exceptions to a rule Wink

#2: Author: Chinaren, Location: https://www.NeilHartleyBooks.com

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:49 am
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Quote:

Learning all this made me think. Are my own stories rife with Marys and Garys?

Yes, I think I've done this with Smur, in Avarice who's almost identical to what I could be, if only i was a little more moralistic and handsome. Ah well, we can dream I guess.

Rolly

#3: Author: Smee, Location: UK

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:58 am
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Quote:

Ah well, we can dream I guess.

Yes we can, Mr Orange fluffy multi-millionnaire, who owns half of IF, and travels through the dangerous Bananalands being carried on a cushioned chair, without ever breaking a sweat.

Rolly

Did I forget that Mary Sues are, these days, most commonly found in RP's and fan fiction? Wink

#4: Author: Phang, Location: Phang's House of Mints

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:40 am
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Ah, and so we come to the tricky subject of Mary Sues...btw, another name for Gary Stus I've heard is Marty Stu...but whatever.

I'd say most every writer here must've worried about bringing a Mary Sue into the world at some point or another*. It's one of the main things that likely puts off readers, eheh?

And as it is, I'm now gonna spend a while worrying about the idea myself...cheers, eh?

#5: Author: D-Lotus, Location: Hollywood, USA

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:43 pm
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Another important thing about characters: You don't have to like them, they don't have to strike you as 'real' (in the sense of authenticity or likeability), but rather, the portrayal has to be good. What I mean is that you can have a character who is despicable, and yet he is a great character, because he is presented in such a way that he is engaging and intriguing. You can have a character who is very ideal and aunthentic, but he/she is boring as hell, and that's bad.

A story that examplifies what I am talking about is The Real Thing, by Henry James.

#6: Author: Argon18, Location: California

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:49 pm
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I'm not sure that definition of "Mary Sue" is correct.

The way I heard it was the fanfic of Star Trek had characters deliberately written in without any plausible reason because the writers themselves wanted to be in the series so badly. That's why if they were sent into Paramont it was obvious that the characters were the writers themselves since they had no background in the Star Trek Universe.

Wesley Crusher isn't an example of a "Gray Stu" since he was there at the start of the TNG series and whatever abilities his character was given wasn't because he wrote them in there himself.

As a general rule I don't see how that can apply since of course all characters are extensions of the writer's minds and imagination so they bring a part of themseleves to every character they put into a story.

#7: Author: Guest,

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:27 am
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wow I actaully sat and read through this! Thank you for warning us about Mary sues and Gary stus. I usually wrote stories with Mary sues in it. So that is a habbit I have to get out of. I think I might actaully start writing again. Very Happy

#8: Author: Geek_girl72, Location: Earth, The Universe

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:16 pm
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The book "The Mind of the Maker" has a birriant section about realistic characters and how they may or may not resemble the author, definately worth reading. personally I think it's helped me a lot in that capacity adn I'd highyl recommend it.

#9: Author: Reiso, Location: Western North America

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:30 pm
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Huh, I never knew there was an actual term for it, I just knew it always bugged the crap out of me whenever I came across it. No one wants to read a story about someone who everything goes right for and never has to face any challenges. It's boring. But we always want our characters to be fairly Uber, so they stand out, and many many writers overcompensate for this by making these perfect Mary-Sues. The way I've always seen it, the more a character has to overcome, the more we cheer for them when they finally do. Someone who is beset on all sides by his flaws or failures whether large or small, can feel a sense of enormous triumph at even the littlest of victories. So yeah, instead of trying to avoid perfect characters (aka Mary-Sues), I always just figure out what my character's flaws are, and make them somewhat defining. Sometimes a flaw is where I start, and build a character around that. Just be careful you don't overcompensate in the other direction by making a character that is incompetent! Unless that's your angle, of course.

#10: Author: DeadManWalking,

Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:09 pm
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I agree with most of what Reiso said, although one thing that i do enjoy, and something i'm trying to do (not yet in any story up) is to create a character as stereotypically perfect as possible, then cutting him/her down slowly.

So something like Kurtz from Heart of Darkness.

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