City of IF

[Key]

The next chapter of the featured storygame "The Machine's Daughter" has been posted:

Chapter 16: The God in Chains

Discussion and voting are complete for chapter 16.

For more about the storygame, see the New Players Start Here topic in this forum.

[Chinaren]

Yep, I'm ready. Bring it on.

[Muaddib]

I really don't think she is ready. I mean she was frail before the Scarpi, what could she possibly do to a giant eagle?

Maybe she could rpush a boulder onto the head of the sleeping eagle, thus crushing it?

[Kalanna Rai]

I suggest that you lure the eagle into a conversation and use logic, since that's your strong point. If all else fails maybe the eagle will fly you back to it's nest and you can get in a lucky shot?

[Shady Stoat]

Tricky. Quite tricky.

Well, I'd say that we shouldn't get too clever with plans on this one. The first priority should be to go and talk to Prometheus. After all, he's had 2000 years to mull things over. I'm betting he has some ideas about what would make the world a better place or fulfil his original purpose.

If those plans involve a way to free him, then we can listen and decide whether or not to act on it. If not, then, for my money, Pilla's goal at the moment should be to get the Watchmaker to aid her, not to aid him. He has information that she needs in her quest for self-knowledge. Only when she has that can she move on and achieve her goals - or even find out what her goals should be.

Why be afraid to approach him without a plan? Presumably, he'll have just as much (if not more!) incentive to free himself than Pilla has. Let's hope he can get a coherent conversation out with the amount of damage that he's self-healing at the moment.

Great chapter. :D

[ethereal_fauna]

Speaking with Prometheus sounds like the best place to start, and I agree with Stoat's comment that Pilla's goal at the moment should be to get the Watchmaker to aid her, not to aid him.

She should reflect on why so many want her dead...why the Emperor wants her dead. She's getting droplets of the information that she set out to find...why she looks so different, what are her origins and purpose. Seems like it would have occured to her by now that she might be more important than she ever suspected.

She has remained powerless even when given the chance to sieze some form of power. She has remained ignorant even when given small pieces of information. She has clung to a logic that can not make sense of the dynamic world outside of her childhood home.

Why shouldn't Pilla finally compute that there are others like her on the Wheel, the Emperor is not the rightful leader, there might be a grander goal for her and even these other Makers...

She could have unified the Scarpi, and instead has abandoned that notion for the moment. She surely must realize there is power in numbers. Why not unite those children born in the image of the Makers, to save her own life and theirs as well?

Ask Prometheus if there is a way for her to escape.

[Muaddib]

Fauna and Stoat have me convinced.

[Stubby]

ethereal_fauna wrote: She could have unified the Scarpi, and instead has abandoned that notion for the moment.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she tried for that, and their reaction was to kill her - or at least to attempt to. I don't think she exactly abandoned the idea so much as was stunk in the abdomen by a highly enraged Scarpi who would very much have liked to watch her die a horrible and painful death.


Moving swiftly on to this chapter. It would be possible and reasonable (if a little gruesome) to free Prometheus by cutting off his hands and feet - that way the shackles would no longer be attached. After all, they would grow back tomorrow.

My only other observarion is that 2,000 years of weathering would probably have significanly weakened the chains that are holding him.

But on the whole, I agree with talking to him and asking for his advice / help.

[OmegaTerra]

I agree with talking to him and asking for his advice and/or help.

[Key]

OK, any thoughts on what you might ask his help and advice about?

[ethereal_fauna]

Should he be freed? Why are children being born in the form of the Makers? Is there a way for her to escape? Where could she go to find allies, strength, support? What should she do to make a difference in her life, and in the lives of everyone on the Wheel?

[Ravenwing]

Shady, and Fauna have very convincing arguments. I think the question that should be asked of Prometheus is whether or not he wants to be free as does he think he deserves such punishement?

I know a weird question to ask, but not all, who are punished usually want to return to the world they once lived in.

[Muaddib]

Quote: Should he be freed?

He gets his organs pecked out everyday. He'll think we're being cruel if we ask him this question.

[Ovrlndnsea]

Kalanna Rai wrote: I suggest that you lure the eagle into a conversation and use logic, since that's your strong point. If all else fails maybe the eagle will fly you back to it's nest and you can get in a lucky shot?

Or mabye the eagle will dispatch you quickly if you try that scheme. The eagles are not purely logical, like the Zigots, Pilla, and me. Except I'm not in the story, so that doesn't matter.

[Ravenwing]

Muaddib wrote: Quote: Should he be freed?

He gets his organs pecked out everyday. He'll think we're being cruel if we ask him this question.

I shouldn't have suggested that. I actually meant why not just ask him what he thinks of this punishment placed on him? Ask him for his perspective for the crime he committed.

We need two sides to this argument IMO. How do we know that Aquila heard the right reasons for Prometheus' punishment?

[Muaddib]

It sounds to me like everyone thinks we can just stroll upto Prometheus and get Obi wan style advice from him. If I were having my organs ripped out and then once more and again... I'd scream for help if I saw someone.

[The White Blacksmith]

:x Well, don't we think she should free him first? I mean, after living with the Zigots she must hyave some iddea of how to work the metal and free him. The chains might not have rusted because they were probably made by the first Emporor, but then, if she's a maker as well, she could, with his instruction, uncreate the chains. :smile: I know i'm just a humble blacksmith who didn't understand her logic but it seems to me that she needs to free him first, ask questions later. :smile: :D :lol:
lollollollollollolllollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollollol

[Key]

We've got some new players! :cool:

Welcome to the City, ovrlndnsea and White Blacksmith. Thanks for the suggestions!

:-)

[LordoftheNight]

Don't forget - if he made the Zigots, then it does seem reasonable that he is also fairly logical. If she spoke to him logically about why he is imprisoned, he may well respond in kind, especially if it's after dark, while his internal organs are re-growing.

[Ravenwing]

But you all who say he should be freed aren't thinking from the prospective of the imprisoned at all. Some people accept their fate for what is no matter how painful.

We should at least talk to Prometheus.

[Muaddib]

People accept their fate, when there seems to be no scope for help. I really haven't heard of anyone who has been incarcerated and is continually tortured, wanting to having a chat before deciding whether to be freed or not.

If Pilla thinks that its logical to have a nice discussion with him first, then shes not thinking logically at all, because being logical would mean taking into account what the other person might want as well.

[Stubby]

I think people are missing the point somwehat here...

A lot are saying we should free him... HOW?

It seems to me that the people who first suggested talking to Prometheus were actually suggesting that we ask this 30' tall incredibly strong and powerful giant what we, a small weak feeble human, can do to get him out of these chains, each link of which is probably inches thick. It is others later who took this to mean that we approach him for a deep and maningful philosophical discussion.

We have no equipment or tools apart from a pointed stick (although it seems to have an edge, since we sliced out thumb open).

Suggesting that we simply free him, without any further detail is very likely to end in failure. Without some kind of plan or method, we can't free him. He may know of a weakness we can exploit - that is why we need to talk to him.

[Smee]

A great chapter and some very good comments from people.

A good point from Lordy that he is likely to be very logical himself, being the creator of them. Although that doesn't explain how the Zigots have still been 'reproducing' during his incarceration.

I agree with Muaddib that having a chin-wag before freeing him isn't the best idea.

However, once he's freed, Fauna has come up with some very good questions that will hopefully get answered. At the very least we have to hope he has some ability to get us down from the mountains if the Eagles suddenly become less willing to talk.

Backing up a bit, there is still the issue of the guard Eagle. We're not the greatest fighter, and it's safe to assume the eagle knows what it's doing with it's talons. We need to focus the attack on a vulnerable part of it, something that it wouldn't risk damage to and will choose flight rather than fight.

Eyes and wings seem good bets - losing either would probably mean death to the Eagle so hopefully it can be scared off.

Happy Writing :)

[Muaddib]

I agree with you stubby, but not with the premise that we go and ask Prometheus about other stuff.

[Ravenwing]

Good point about the Eagle guard. It seems inevitable Pilla will have to go against it. If we talk to Prometheus, perhaps he would know. I mean he has gone through this punishment for so long, he must have noticed something about his creature as he went through the pain.

[The White Blacksmith]

yes... Raven? I've never had my liver ripped out dailly but I don't think it gets better with time. Going back, wouldn't it be best for Pilla to start to free him strait after the eagle has gone? I agree with Raven in that he might not want to be freed, but we shouldn't enter a discussion with it!
"Do you want to be freed?" would only take a minite and if he wants to be, get to work. If he doesn't, hey. :cool: I think we're forgetting he's a giant who deeply loaths that eagle Pilla is trying to kill :-x . Who said she needed to kill it :poke: when she has all this strenght behind her :gun: .

You guys argue too much. Why not combine your points. Ask him if he wants to be freed (maybe) free him then let him kill the eagle. Can't Stoat and Fauna have their discussion with him later? :confused:

[The White Blacksmith]

oh, and if he doesn't want to be freed, she doesn't need to kill the eagle and she can sit there and have her discussion in the night

[Ravenwing]

Someone likes to double post. :D But yeah we're going around in circles. But I think the only reason we are is because we don't know Prometheus very well thus we do not know his reactions.

Thus I think just talking to the dude is something totally in the middle and reasonable to start with.

[Araex]

We need a plan of action:

1 - Ask him if he thinks he deserves this punishment, after approaching in a reassuring manner, so he doesn't cry out.

2 - Ask him how to free him, and do so.

3 - Get him to kill big bad eagle man.

4 - Ask him our questions as we make good our escape. He should be sympathetic to both a Zigot or a Maker.

Sound good?

[Key]

OK, there are lots of options that could be combined in this one, but the decision point will be what you do first. So far I've heard the following suggestions:

Investigate the chains
Cut off Prometheus' hands and feet
Talk to the eagle
Try to kill the eagle
Ask Prometheus how to free him
Ask Prometheus whether he wants to be freed
Ask Prometheus what your life means, and how you might help others

Let me know if there's something I missed...

[Ravagerrr]

I really see the point in everything that's been said.

Prometheus may indeed remain tied to the wall for a reason of his own. She had the vision of him ripping himself free. Is it not possible that he's been capable of this all along? Perhaps he is thinking along some divine line of consideration regarding his imprisonment and torture.

Speaking with him is a good idea first because the eagle should not seek to harm her unless she "attempts to free him". I have a feeling he has the strength to do this himself. Either that or the wisdom of years of observing the eagle(s) to have a really good plan as to how to achieve his escape. Keep playing the logic game to the letter as that is all the eagles seem to answer to.

In fact, she may wish to try to convince the gaurdian eagle to free him through some loophole in his own commands... hmmm...

As we saw against the scarpi, an enemy our own size, Pilla sucks in combat and should not attempt to fight the eagle... entrapping it somehow would be a better option if it comes down to that.

Cutting off the hands and feet is a really cool idea, but how would u do it? With a spear???

Ok, 'nuff said. Key rocks!

[Ravenwing]

Well I am all for the idea of just talking to him about whether he wants to be freed since that can be tied with the question about the truth for his incarceration.

So yeah, I think you have all the options, Key. :cool:

[Key]

Poll's up!

[Ravenwing]

Voted.

[LordoftheNight]

Voted.

[Muaddib]

Voted of course, went for Stubby's idea.

[Chinaren]

*Double Bob thwack*

and voted.

[Key]

Poll's closed. The conversation with Prometheus will be revealed in two days' time.

:-)

[Ravenwing]

Can't wait to read it then.

[The White Blacksmith]

I missed the poll! :(