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The Twin Prince 5: The Monster in the Attic
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Key



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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject: The Twin Prince 5: The Monster in the Attic  

The next chapter of the featured storygame "The Twin Prince" has been posted:

Chapter 5: The Monster in the Attic

Discussion and voting are complete for Chapter 5.

For more about the storygame, see the New Players Start Here topic in this forum.
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D-Lotus



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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:34 pm    Post subject:  

What do we do?

We beat him senseless, obviously!

Well, its not that easy. I don't think we're ready, or that we can. The prince is not Aenas, and he has no army to aid him.

Nice chapter, I like the way that Zuspaster changes to ask help from his son, but I have a feeling that he might have done that with Aenas as well.

I think we cannot do anything but let the creature go and fly away, hopefully. In the meanwhile, we should quickly build a league of all the nations under the emperor's name to fight the creature. Fighting it right now would be senseless not only because we don't have the strength, but because we don't have the strength to fight the prophecy that says he will be liberated (the prophecy is very strong; as soon as the prince came into the room, the creature finally broke the chains).

I think the best would be to let the thing fly away and then fight it with superior strength.

As the prince, he might not know about the other makers in each race, but it would be cool that they formed an alliance (as I said, he doesn't know yet).
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Chinaren



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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject:  

Mmm, I am struggling here with my Star-Trek hat. It seems the father could have kept Mars restrained relatively easily, with a little maintanance work on the prison, but instead chose to ignore it.

He also said he beat Mars once, but now he can't without his sons help. Erm, one has to ask why?

Anyway, I f5 D-Lotus* here. If they can't beat it now, then the only option is to run away.


*Hey D! Welcome back! :D Long time no see!
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solus.serpen



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Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:23 pm    Post subject:  

Hm, well I think I'll go for something different.
How about trying to talk to it? It might look like a mindless frothing monster, but its probably quite intelectual. Because in order to get free, he must have been applying the right ammount of pressure to the particular spot where the main anchor was. Anyway, talking to him could be interesting if they can work out how. He could just be lonely or something...and just needs some care. (ok, not likely - but why not! Nothing wrong with being optamistic!).
Anyway, we'd be more suited to talking than fighting, and we havn't anything to lose by it. By all means let it fly away, and then build an army to fight it, but if this can be simplified by talking to it...no harm done.

Solus.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 12:35 am    Post subject:  

chinaren wrote: It seems the father could have kept Mars restrained relatively easily, with a little maintanance work on the prison, but instead chose to ignore it.

you want to get close enough to that thing to perform rutine maintenance?
and what kind of maintenance could they do then, thye havent yet invented cement and cement is weak anyway so the opnly thing thiey could do is replace the stone and re-anchor the chain to the new stone, a little bit difficult seeing as that would free the monster

anyway ill third D RUN LIKE HELL AN GET BACKUP
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Chinaren
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:06 am    Post subject:  

saxon215 wrote: chinaren wrote: It seems the father could have kept Mars restrained relatively easily, with a little maintanance work on the prison, but instead chose to ignore it.

you want to get close enough to that thing to perform rutine maintenance?
and what kind of maintenance could they do then, thye havent yet invented cement and cement is weak anyway so the opnly thing thiey could do is replace the stone and re-anchor the chain to the new stone, a little bit difficult seeing as that would free the monster



Sorry, I don't buy that.

They had the power and the resources to do the job in the first place, and his father isn't ignorant of the threat. It's just... I don't know. Lazy? Ignorant? At best, bad planning.
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Mother Goose
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:25 am    Post subject:  

This story seems to be set at an earlier time than the others. Zuspater is the Emperor, and in the other stories there was a regent on the throne. He also seems to be a Maker in form, like Aeneas and the Prince (at least, he never gives a jump and suddenly you're talking to Zuspatra or Zuspatros!). He's even a contemporary of Aeneas, a legendary figure in the other stories.

But Mars is not a figure of those legends. Either he was defeated and forgotten, or he has escaped and permeated the world with discord and war among the Makerites, without their being aware of him.

How can one defeat the god of war? What he fights he will master, but how to fight such a monster, whose weapons are hate and dissension (to say nothing of claws, teeth and clubs)? Solus has a point; the thing is sentient, though enraged. Try talking and see if some of the other half of the training, the philosophy, can be useful.

Another thought: can the Oracle help? Another prophecy? I suppose not - one to a customer is the usual rule.
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Key
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject:  

chinaren wrote: Mmm, I am struggling here with my Star-Trek hat. It seems the father could have kept Mars restrained relatively easily, with a little maintanance work on the prison, but instead chose to ignore it.

He also said he beat Mars once, but now he can't without his sons help. Erm, one has to ask why?

This is a good question. Don't assume that there are no answers in the story.

Think about the history that Julius saw in chapter 4. How did Aeneas, who was a Maker, defeat the Elders, who took the form of great beasts? How did Aeneas drive a nail through the heart of the World Serpent, when the World Serpent is as large as the Wheel itself?
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Key
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:30 am    Post subject:  

Mother Goose wrote: This story seems to be set at an earlier time than the others. Zuspater is the Emperor, and in the other stories there was a regent on the throne. He also seems to be a Maker in form, like Aeneas and the Prince (at least, he never gives a jump and suddenly you're talking to Zuspatra or Zuspatros!). He's even a contemporary of Aeneas, a legendary figure in the other stories.

I won't comment on the time frame relative to other stories, but I will say what Julius has been taught:

- Aeneas lived about two thousand years ago, at the time of the formation of the Wheel. Julius' father, Zuspater, became Emperor around that time, and has ruled ever since.
- Zuspater appears to have the same form as Julius (a form which no one else seems to share). But there are subtle differences, such as a ridge of bumps along his father's back that Julius doesn't have. Julius has been told that he is the only Maker in the world and his father is an immortal Elder.
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Argonaut
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 1:28 pm    Post subject:  

It seems Julius has had the wrong teacher all along. He should have been learning from his father. Zuspater is the only one who was around 2000 years ago. He's the one who knows what makers can really do, how Aeneas helped him defeat Mars.

His question, "can you lead me?" is odd. It implies that a maker's leadership is what enabled them to beat Mars. However I can't see how any kind of leadership will help in a 2 on 1 melee with a partly chained monster.

Julius' knowledge might be usefull instead of brute force, except that he has purposfully not been taught anything about Mars. And so he knows no weakness to exploit, or even whether Mars can speak or not.

It seems Zuspater has performed the classic blunder of trying to stop a prophecy, only to cause it to come true. If we are to believe the prohpecy is inevitable then all Julius has to do it fight Mars, he can't help but master him. Still Prophecy is never that straight-forward, It's far to vague to pertain only to Mars. Perhaps there are other things to set free that Julius does not yet know, and other things to master.

Even if he fights, trusting in the prophecy to bring victory, I doubt he would be able to master Mars before he sets him free. All that being said I still think he should try. Defeating Mars would avoid a war with the other exiled elders.
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JezSharp
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 3:30 pm    Post subject:  

Ok this is becoming rapidly both interesting and more than a little confusing at present :? . I have to f5 Chinaren on the maintenance work, they've managed to somehow bind him for 2000 years or so - surely they'd be able to knock a binded monster senseless to repair the cell - particularaly as the monster fits within a tower...

Anyway the young Prince should should try talking with it at first - perhaps show it kindness/love - at the very least the God of war ought to find this repulsive and retreat from it. He could bring it food etc, who knows - by showing it some kindness now he could easily be rewarded later on.

As for fighting it...No - even with physical training I doubt he'd have been ready to fight it. He could of course just leave it alone - however he may as well have a stab at being kind to it/talking to it first. The perhaps he can talk of it with his teacher who will surely have to tell him all he knows now rather than hiding behind the Princes ignorance.

So all in all it's turned out pretty well for the Prince. Not only has he gained much knowledge, he's eliminated the distrust that was affecting him and his father, discovered the monster of war (who probably would have broken free anyway as it had already loosened the chains). Now he needs to gain more knowledge from his teacher and then see where that knowledge takes him.

...Still don't understand why they cannot knock out/send to sleep the monster...it's been done before and now the monster is chained I would have thought it would be easier...oh well.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject:  

PARTLY chained
as in he is escaping
and even if you do knock it out how do you know it will stay down long enough to repair the bonds that hold it, stonemasons take a long time to work
which gives me another idea, why stone brick up the door nice and strong and fortify the room and just leave the creature to starve to death
unless it doesent need food
but still it will be contained
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JezSharp
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject:  

Quote: PARTLY chained
as in he is escaping ...true, but they have had a fair few years when he was fullt trained and they did nothing. Also losing a few stonemasons wouldn't be a disaster for the sake of repairing the cell.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2006 11:26 pm    Post subject:  

but if no-one entered the room then no-one would know of the monsters working the hooks free
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mor dakka
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject:  

Quote: It shrieks loudly what did it shriek? uninteligable garbage or actual words? if words what did it say? also is their time for juleus to quiz his father about the unanswered info (nail into the worldserpent and the origional restraining of mars?[/quote]
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dinranwen
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject:  

This chapter left a bit, well confused. However, things have definetly got....interesting.

So:

What do we have here: A monster named Mars (hmmm, sounds familar, perhaps after the Greek god of War?), a Father who tried to prevent a prophecy who isn't a maker but an elder, and one Son who having chosen knowledge stands at the feet of the most dangerous piece of information he will probably ever gain.

Quote: What he will fight he will master, what he will know he will free.

One thing that no one has considered so far is that the Oracle let Julius past (after he gained he enough knowledge of history, a thing which seems important here); and now his Father, the Emperor is asking Julius to lead him. Obviously, these two figures think that Julius has the power to defeat this monster, even if Julius doesn't.

So the quote the Oracle told Julius was prophecy? But why does it have to apply to the monster, can't it be implied to something else.

Why not use this power to free through knowledge to free a power that could destroy Mars? Or better why not use knowledge to free something within Mars, another side to this monster that the makers didn't know existed?

If this creature is the equalivant of the Greek god of war, perhaps it would be best to view as War.

War is caos yes. War is death, vileness, greed, bloodshed, and the worst part of men rolled into one chaotic bundle. But it can also be something else. War can be used to gain freedom, instead of for Greed war can be protection, while it brings out the worst in some War brings out the best in others.

Look at the War for Indendpence. Look at the thousands of wars in history that when a group of people oppressed used War to set them free. Some waged War to protect their familes, their lives, and thier liberties.

Would it be possible to bring to the surface these things in the creature named Mars if it is also War?

Quote: What he will fight he will master, what he will know he will free.

F5 Solus. Try to talk to it. It may not help but it may buy some time.

But then fight the evil in the monster, and find the knowledge of the good, master the chaos, free the war of righteousness.

Maybe my logic is crazy. Maybe I'm crazy, but still what I said is what I said.

Until a later time, this note has been signed,
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JezSharp
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Posted: Mon Aug 28, 2006 11:42 pm    Post subject:  

Quote: Why not use this power to free through knowledge to free a power that could destroy Mars? Or better why not use knowledge to free something within Mars, another side to this monster that the makers didn't know existed?


Wow nice post din, sounds like an excellent plan :) .
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Key
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 7:40 pm    Post subject:  

Thanks for the great posts and discussion everyone. Poll's up!
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject:  

The question of why they didn't re-secure the moster, is easy.
Maybe they did. That's not the point, you see.
The point is that the prophecy said Julius would set the monster free, and as soon as he entered the room, the monster began freeing itself. So the moster could have been in any stage of freedom, but it would never have completed its purpose until Julius came.


Therefore, it was more than coincidence or than Zuspater's procrastination that caused the liberation of the monster. It was Julius entering the room that set it off. If Julius hadn't entered the room until a few years later, the monster would not have liberated itself until a few years later, and would not have reached the point of looseness in the chains needed for that liberation until a few years later.


In a way, the prophecy calculated the time it would take Julius to enter the room, and moderated the monster's destroying its chains so that it would reach the climax of its freedom on the exact moment Julius entered the room, regardless of any changes Zuspaster could have made (both in Julius' staying away from the tower and in retaining the moster).


Having made this assumption that the prophecy is all powerful, I am inclined again to believe in its strength and in its first part, What he will fight he will master. If the prophecy says so, then fight to master the monster. After all, the Oracle and your father clearly trust you.
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saxon215
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject:  

then why didnt thye just kill julius and screw up the whole prophecy thing?
i'd kill my own son if it was to save the world, that plus i already did.
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Mother Goose
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:29 am    Post subject:  

"What he knows..." not what he knows about. He sees Mars now but he doesn't know him. He can only do that by talking to him, if that's possible. Maybe, as Dinny says, there's a good side to the monster and Julius can set that free by knowing it.
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:15 pm    Post subject:  

It seems pretty suicidal to me, but then again, who knows, maybe fighting includes verbal and psychological fighting.
I guess Julius is still fighting the monster if he tries to persuade it through an oral explication.

saxon215 wrote: then why didnt thye just kill julius and screw up the whole prophecy thing?
i'd kill my own son if it was to save the world, that plus i already did.


True, but if they killed him and Mars somehow got free regardless of the prophecy (say 3000 years later), then they would have nobody to fight Mars, so they can't kill Julius, because Julius is going to have to defeat the monster (its their only hope).

What do you mean you already killed your son?

My best guess at understanding that is that you impregnated someone and then forced her into abortion, which I'm sure is not the case. :shock:
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Mother Goose
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:31 pm    Post subject:  

I suspect by "I already did" Sax is referring to Zuspater killing Aeneas thousands of years ago.
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saxon215
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject:  

D-Lotus wrote: It seems pretty suicidal to me, but then again, who knows, maybe fighting includes verbal and psychological fighting.
I guess Julius is still fighting the monster if he tries to persuade it through an oral explication.

saxon215 wrote: then why didnt thye just kill julius and screw up the whole prophecy thing?
i'd kill my own son if it was to save the world, that plus i already did.


True, but if they killed him and Mars somehow got free regardless of the prophecy (say 3000 years later), then they would have nobody to fight Mars, so they can't kill Julius, because Julius is going to have to defeat the monster (its their only hope).

What do you mean you already killed your son?

My best guess at understanding that is that you impregnated someone and then forced her into abortion, which I'm sure is not the case. :shock:

i was talking about our baby D, how can you forget ;)
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:43 pm    Post subject:  

How could you do that to me, you b*****rd!!

I didn't forget...its just hard to...acknowledge.... :cry2:
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject:  

Argh! I missed this one too! Well, I've not got much else to do now and so while I have internet I can keep up with the rest of it.

I voted though. Aren't I clever?
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Key
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Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:38 pm    Post subject:  

Thanks for the votes, everyone. Winning option was to talk to Mars.

New chapter up on Saturday.

:-)
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:49 pm    Post subject:  

Quote: What do we have here: A monster named Mars (hmmm, sounds familar, perhaps after the Greek god of War?),

Mars was the Roman God of War, Aries was the Greek version.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject:  

i thought that was a different god, now im confused THANKS A LOT GUYS
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Key
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Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:39 pm    Post subject:  

Chapter 6 posted, locking this chapter.
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