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The Twin Prince 7: War Unbound
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Key



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Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 11:24 pm    Post subject: The Twin Prince 7: War Unbound  

The next chapter of the featured storygame "The Twin Prince" has been posted:

Chapter 7: War Unbound

Discussion and voting are complete for Chapter 7.

For more about the storygame, see the New Players Start Here topic in this forum.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:53 am    Post subject:  

woah good chapter, very unexpect, as of yet i have nothing to ask but i shall ponder the question of the question
anyway
YAY!!!!! FIRST POST AGAIN!!!!
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Chinaren
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:43 am    Post subject:  

Well, once again Zoospitter just stood by and let Mars escape. He is supposed to be in charge, yet here he goes blaming the son.

The question should perhaps be:

"Why did you allow Mars to escape and wreak havoc on your lands?"

He could add, if he was feeling a bit bitter:

"And then blame me for it all."

My opinion here is that Zoosplatter needs to stop bitching and get off his arse and do something. He stood by and let it all happen after all.

Sorry if that seems a bit harsh, but there you go. My Star-trek hat is coming to the fore a bit. That and the beer. :-o
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:15 am    Post subject:  

doesent do much for the question but yeah i agree with you there chin, zospy should show Julius what Mars has done to his land and the poeple anmd reason with him that even if zosp was a bit of a dick tator it isent as bad as what Mars is doing and use this to convince julius to side with him and fight Mars bar together
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The Powers That Be
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:48 am    Post subject:  

Interesting. This is basically exactly what I expected to happen if we chose to avoid making a choice, but with one big surprise. I had no idea that we (Julius) were so self-centered and cold: Mars escapes, arguably as a direct result of our own waffling, and we do nothing to help our subjects? At least Dad was in there helping out - we just decided to run away. I, for one, am not very proud of us.

It's easy, I suppose, to blame Dad for this (and maybe that's what we'd do, given how self-absorbed we are), but he is correct in labeling us a traitor. As for a single productive question to ask, I'm at a loss at the moment, but I'll think about it some more.
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The Powers That Be
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 6:56 am    Post subject:  

chinaren wrote: Well, once again Zoospitter just stood by and let Mars escape. He is supposed to be in charge, yet here he goes blaming the son.

*shaking head in confusion*

Say what?

Dad said, "I can't stop Mars alone - I need your help. Let's stop him or he'll kill people and do really bad stuff."

We said, "No dad. I'd rather stand around and wait and see what happens."

Mars escapes, kills people and goes off to do really bad stuff.

Dad runs downstairs, jumps in, helps out and takes control of the situation.

We look around, ignore the pain and suffering immediately around us, and say, "Um, I think I'll get out of here."

And Dad's the one who just 'stood by' and did nothing? He's the one to blame??!!

I think even a spoiled little brat like us would have a hard time convincing ourselves of that one.
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dinranwen
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:10 am    Post subject:  

How about "Do you love me?"

A strange question, but it may through Zopaster off his guard. And perhaps it may change his mind.

Or here's another, "I have been in a prison all my life, why put me in another?"

Although nothing will be gained in that question.

Here's my favorite. "There's a monster on the loose, and from what I know I'm the only one who can beat him. What are you going to gain by imprisioning me except for mainting your pride? Let me go, and this much I promise, one way or another, I'm going to deal with Mars."

That question hits the matter smack dap in the face. There is nothing to be gained in imprisoning the only person who can perhaps save the world. It smacks of a promise to destroy Mars, but says nothing of the sort. In fact with that prashing, Julius can decide to actually join Mars if he so chooses.

Perhaps if we ask that question, Zopaster will let Julius go, perhaps even without an escort since he's furiuos at Julius right now. Plus if Zopaster refuses to answer, or imprisiones Julius anyway, Julius has just made it abundantely clear what a foolish act his imprisonment is to everyone in the room. Once that is known, perhaps someone who is brave enough will see the truth in what Julius said, and if Zopaster still imprisons him, will try to set Julius free.

Those, however, are only my suggestions. Perhaps someone has a better idea,
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Chinaren
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:15 am    Post subject:  

The Powers That Be wrote: chinaren wrote: Well, once again Zoospitter just stood by and let Mars escape. He is supposed to be in charge, yet here he goes blaming the son.

*shaking head in confusion*

Say what?

Dad said, "I can't stop Mars alone - I need your help. Let's stop him or he'll kill people and do really bad stuff."

We said, "No dad. I'd rather stand around and wait and see what happens."

Mars escapes, kills people and goes off to do really bad stuff.

Dad runs downstairs, jumps in, helps out and takes control of the situation.

We look around, ignore the pain and suffering immediately around us, and say, "Um, I think I'll get out of here."

And Dad's the one who just 'stood by' and did nothing? He's the one to blame??!!

I think even a spoiled little brat like us would have a hard time convincing ourselves of that one.

Well, if it is any consolation, I didn't vote for him to run off! ;)

Zusplutter is the Captain, the boss, the main man. The big cheese, head honcho. At the end of the day, if all goes well, he gets the kudos. However, if the poop hits the rotary device, then he takes the fall.

Maybe laddo did make a stupid decision (which I think he did, I voted to run off with Mars myself), but I still put the ball squarely in his court.

Quote: Mars escapes, kills people and goes off to do really bad stuff.

Dad runs downstairs, jumps in, helps out and takes control of the situation.


Exactly. Horse/bolted and all that.

He could have done a whole bunch more to keep the lad out, in any number of ways, not the least being moving him from the area. Putting some poncy snake in the way who just let him pass after a quick chat doesn't seem like much of a guardian either. Then there is all the 'chain Mars up' with dodgy cement malarky, though we have been over that one already.

If Zuspiker was serious about keeping him out then he could have done a far better job of it. If he decided that Destiny meant there was no keeping him out, then he should have educated sonny boy about the whole sordid affair upfront.

Zoolander trapped him in the first place. Why is he so helpless suddenly? He didn't even try to do anything.

eg:

"Oh son, help me please! No? Oh well, never mind then, I will just stand by and watch. Oh look! He has run off! This is all your fault! I am so mad I am going to lock you away for ever. "

Oh, and if laddo is the only one who can stop Mars, then why is he locking him away now? :?

Harrumph. :mad:

The son may have made a stupid decision, but Pappy was the one behind the whole debacle. He needs to take the fall like a man, instead of pointing fingers at someone he has kept in the dark.

Of course, there is probably some cunning ploy behind the whole thing, which I will be waiting with interest to see, or the Star Trek hat is really going to come out. ;)

~Folds arms and taps foot~
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The White Blacksmith
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject:  

Ooh! Great chapter key!

I would say:

"Would you please tell me the whole story behind this before I am locked away?"

Get all the information about it. I get the feeling there is still a lot you aren't being told. Is there more to the prophecy(sp?)? Who was my mother? There is a lot more you could be told.
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Key
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Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject:  

Glad to see this chapter has generated so much spirited discussion! :D

Keep the ideas coming...

:-)
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JezSharp
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:21 am    Post subject:  

Wow, awesome Chapter Key - really enjoyed it. Right first to the Chapter itself then the dp (I'm going to use Z for Zuspater as it's a lot simpler that way :):

Was it the wrong decision? Well of the three options i) go with Mars - same outcome except that he'd have sided with a mass murderer (and would have known Mars even more - presumably freeing him still further?) ii) Siding with neither - ok not looking too great now or iii) Siding with his father, starting to look the better option (althougth what was to stop Mars kicking down the wall anyway - unless perhaps when Z and his son combine forces they form an unstoppable power...? A little strange). However it is Z's fault and not Julius's for all that has happened here, contrary to some peculiar posts stating otherwise for the following reasons:

1) Clearly the intial fault is Z's anyway for his completely irrational, illogical and paranoid upbringing of his son (assuming Julius is even his true son). He claims to have been paranoid that Julius would set Mars free so he brings his son up in a prision and makes the tower inaccessable to him...almost any reasonable (and many stupid) people could have forseen the inevitable outcome of such foolish actions...Alternative to this he could have had Rene/Renos educate him to the dangers in such a way that he wouldn't have sided against Mars. (In fact Rene/Renos must take some slight culpability for not educating himto the dangers of the wheel - although they were seemingly bound by the King's orders not to do so).

2) Kind of following on from the last point Z has been less than trustworthy/honest in his dealings with his son up to this point - in fact to the point where it was hard to know whether to trust a dangerous looking monster of War or him...if he'd been completely open with his son earlier the outcome may well have been different.

3) Most importantly his father rarely showed his son love in any measure - a love that he will have missed from either parent his whole childhood and that again led to him not knowing who to side with when faced with an otherwise more straightforward choice.

Z had the chance to explain all of the above in his speech to his son when Mars had presented his case earlier but instead ignored his last chance of stopping Mars from getting free by decending into a slanging battle with Mars instead of talking honestly with his son. In the circumstances Julius acted more than reasonably, the fact that he didn't side with Mars is at least some testament to that given that his father seems to have tried his utmost, be it inadvertantly, to have him side with Mars throughout his upbringing.

As to Julius being cold hearted and not helping the people - you once again cannot really blame him. Up till now he's been locked away the whole of his life, been given no true firends and been shown no love care or affection - how is it possible tht he is then supposed to have any to give out to anyone else??? Again the fault lies with Z for bringing him up to be Z's personal robot - perhaps Z's idea of children is that they should all be perfect clones of himself?

In short it can be summed up by the earlier quote of Power's:
Quote: And Dad's the one who just 'stood by' and did nothing? He's the one to blame??!! Meant ironically...and yet if you look at the Prince's life up till now it suddenly becomes quite potent...Julius's dad has effectively just 'stood by' and done nothing for his son - whether that be to help him, support him and otherwise. In fact in terms of support he has given him meals, a roof, and a tutor who won't give out the information Julius needs - some father! And so it follows that he is ultimately to blame (at least morally and reasonably if not legally) for Julius's choice and subsequent indifference to the suffering he sees.

Therefore Julius's best option was to head into the Wheel asap to a) escape his father b) learn the lessons of life that he needs so badly - such as compassion,love,pain etc. Then he goes and spoils it by deciding to tell his father he was going :( ...I thought the whole point was to leave the castle silently without his father's knowledge...but nm, I can see how going to his father probably made sense to him at the time.

* * *

Now finally onto the dp :) .

A question for his father...


1) China's suggestion: Why did you allow Mars to wreck havoc on your lands?...could be phrased or covered better by later suggestions such as 'Why didn't you show me true love?' or 'Why didn't you trust me?'. The trouble with this Q is that his father is unlikely to see it as his fault unless the question is more pertinent and specific. With this Q he is more likely to reply 'I didn't set Mars free, you did.' which is then a waste of a question.

2) Dinranwen's suggestion : Do you love me? or questions to a similar effect (Why haven't you shown me even a trace of fatherly love whilst I've lived? etc.). Excellent question...as good as any I can think of and slightly more direct than the almost equally good 'why put me in yet another prison' question...(although Z may respond to that 'for everyone's safety'). Ceratianly if Z has any feelings for his son this ought to hit him hard...if not then I guess Julius's coldness was not only a result of a parenting error by his father but an inevitable result of it. The danger is that Z's face is blank now and he may have completely detached himself from his son - becoming a law unto himself - devoid of any emotion.

3) Dinranwen's suggestion: 'I'm the only person who can now stop Mars'. Probably my preferred suggestions of the ones given so far as it makes logical sense and that may well be the only thing (other than the appeal for love- that may not work) that gets to Z currently. Clearly he should then see the wisdom in the words (something that Julius should at least be good at is wisdom in his words) and let him go to wander the Wheel (unless he has i) an ulterior motive i.e stopping Julius from discovering the truth outside in which case Julius may as well resign himself to jail or ii) decides to keep him within the castle/ forces him to the front lines to defeat Mars when he shows up). Still would be a question worth asking.

4) Whitey's suggestion: Tell us all, before we are locked away...couple of problems i) we are then relying instantly on someone such as Rene/Renos to get us free and ii) we'll be asking for an account of the truth from a person who has deliberately hidden the truth from us and is unlikely to suddenly give us any more truth's - certainly not relevent ones...it happens a lot in fiction books near the end when the 'baddie' decides to impart his masterminded criminal plans instead of just killing the (sometimes incredibly annoying) investigator - a star trek hat moment that hopefully this book won't follow (although the circumstances are slightly diffeent here - if Z doesn't want J to know something he won't tell him it merely because he assumes J will be in jail for life).

Ok some suggestions of my own, difficult after din's ones but here are a couple:

Why have you forsaken me my father? (along the lines of love but somehow stronger- suggesting that his father has cut him off, seperated himself from him, e.g as Jesus cried upon the cross 'Father, Father why have you forsaken me?' when the burden of our sin passed onto his shoulders and cut him off from his Father). Probably the ultimate in emotional appeal - but will emotional appeal work here...? He could always shout something along the lines of 'you never showed me any love my father, how could I choose correctly after such an upbringing or words to that effect as he's led away to try and alert his father to his past faults.

Am I really your son? - is a little defeatest as he'll be thrown into jail regardless but it would be interesting to establish the fact...althougth as his father can't be trusted perhaps it will only lead to further confusion...actually considering any knowledge imparted by his father as to matters of fact (e.g state of the wheel, what lies in the dungeons etc. is likely to be withheld or skewed he may as well not ask them).

- May I say my last goodbyes to the people I know up here? - In particular Rene/Renos as they offer the best hope of escape to the Prince as the twin is perhaps the closest creature to the Prince.

...Actually a variation of Whitey's question but angled more specifically at Z ('Tell me about you father, before I go') could have a double affect if successful - firstly it may soften his father's attitude towards him but secondly if he does tell him at least some stuff about himself then Julius can start to hopefully master Z in line with the prophesy...interesting thought.

Anyway I'll crystalise my thoughts on which option he should specifically take once the poll is up :) .
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Chinaren
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject:  

:shock:
That response was longer than the chapter Jez!! :D
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saxon215
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:47 am    Post subject:  

Jez i have a frigin reading headache now, grrrr stupid you
lol nah good points were raised and i like your suggestions well thought out
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Argonaut
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject:  

Well I don't know how much I can add to all that's been said. I'd like to ask about Julius' mother. I know it seems like it dosn't have much to do with what's going on. But it's just been brought to our attention by the ring, and it feels to me like it could be very important. Perhaps that's just me.

P.S. to those arguing about who is to blame, get over it. What's done is done, time to move on :)
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LordoftheNight
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:01 pm    Post subject:  

It's when he simply answers negatively - he gave no promise to speak the truth, or even answer.
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Guest
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject:  

Okay, one, Love this story and chapter.

Two, why the $#@5 do we always to do the stupid thing? I mean seriously, we should have joined Mars...Look where being nuetral gets us.

Three, great story

Four, great story, I mean really great

Five, Say something to hurt him, badly. Maybe metioning your mother, his mother, his dick, then mention about letting Mars wreak havoc. I just want the stupid idiot of a king to be insulted, and hurt...mentally, if not physically. If not mentally, the very spiritually or emotionally. I don't care!

Six, Great story.

Seven, Okay, I'll stop now. Peace!
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Key
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject:  

OK, let me list the suggestions so far. There's more than we can do in a single poll, so tell which ones you should (and shouldn't) be included:

"Why did you allow Mars to escape and wreak havoc on your lands?"
"Do you love me?"
"Why didn't you love me or trust me?"
"Why have you forsaken me?"
"Am I really your son?"
"Why put me in prison?"
"I'm the only one who can beat Mars. Let me go and I'll deal with him."
"Would you please tell me the whole story behind this before I am locked away?"
"Tell me about you, Father, before I go."
"Tell me about my mother."
"May I say my last goodbyes to the people I know?"
(Insult him)
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject:  

Quote: "I'm the only one who can beat Mars. Let me go and I'll deal with him."

This was the first thing that occurred to me as I finished reading. I think its obvious that Zus is bluffing or too mad at Julius to see that Julius is his only hope.

Maybe we could have a conbination of that and "Can you say its all my fault?"

So maybe "Can you say its all my fault? You know that only I can help you now."

I think the "Don't you love me?" is a bit weak, as he obviously doesn't, or wouldn't be locking you up. Did he love Aenas?

If Zus is bluffing, then he's waiting for us to give a strong contestation, to make sure that we are strong enough to handle Mars, yet not so strong that he can't control us later. If he's just mad, then the warning will put him back thinking. I have the feeling that "Can you say its all my fault? You know that only I can help you now." is the right thing, because it is a warning, yet it promises of obediance to Zus, which is exactly what he wants.
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JezSharp
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject:  

I think we can lose the Why did you let Mars wreak havoc option as Z is unlikely to see it as his fault. Also the prison option as his response may well be 'when you were out of prison you caused havoc, it's safer when you're behind bars'.
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saxon215
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject:  

yeah, i'll side with D there the do you love me is a little stupid and pointless
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Mother Goose
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:50 am    Post subject:  

"Tell me about my mother" should be included. It might not be the most pressing at this moment (that is, I may not end up voting for it), but any information about Julius's background is bound to be helpful, and the ring may have some significance or power. It could win him support from her people (presumably the Twins) if he gets free, for instance.
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JezSharp
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:00 am    Post subject:  

but any information about Julius's background is bound to be helpful...true as long as his father gives him the true information and not some vague distortion of the truth.
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The Powers That Be
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject:  

I love the "Tell me about my mother" proposal. If that doesn't (a) wound Dad and (b) open him up, I doubt anything will.

As for the earlier discussion regarding blaming Dad for everything, the rebuttals seem to argue that Dad is entirely to blame for recent events because he raised us to be a rotten lousy kid. I suppose I won't argue with the last part of that, but I have a problem with the causal link and the dismissal of the idea of personal responsibility.

I read those posts and all I can think is "Pot. Kettle. Black."

Anyway, none of this has bearing on the current DP except insofar as we shouldn't be spending our precious last question in griping at Dad. Which rules out #1, 3, 4 and 6 for me as appropriate questions/comments.
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject:  

It is both Zuspaster's and Julius' fault for what happened. Zus hid the truth from Julius, and Julius made the wrong decision (arguably, but for the moment it seems so).
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Guest
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:12 pm    Post subject:  

..I was thinking along the lines of "Fuck you, Dad. (INSERT IMPORTANT REQUEST OR QUESTION HERE)"

. . . . . .
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Key
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:29 pm    Post subject:  

Poll's up!
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Chinaren
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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject:  

I voted for 'Only I can help you know'. though it was tempting to go with the 'Something insulting' option! :D
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject:  

I think the obvious option is winning.
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saxon215
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Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject:  

and we have at least one person who just feels like insulting the big Z
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Mother Goose
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject:  

Well, let's try the mother question.

At least it's a new topic that hasn't been mentioned before - Zus already knows the prophecy and that Julius can help against Mars, and doesn't care, since Julius chose not to ally with him. Or is Julius by saying "only I can help" changing his mind and agreeing to ally with his father after all?
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:46 pm    Post subject:  

Yes, but Zus might be so angry that he's not realizing what he's doing. Maybe just a gentle reminder will help.
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Key
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:35 pm    Post subject:  

Poll's closed. The winning choice was "You know that I'm the only one who can help you now."

Due to the author's time constraints, we're moving to a biweekly schedule, so the next chapter won't be up till next Saturday.
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saxon215
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Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:02 pm    Post subject:  

damn, i dont want to wait that long
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject:  

Too bad. :(

At least its not so bad.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject:  

yeah i cant really talk can i
i mean my chapters take months to come out
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solus.serpen
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:00 am    Post subject:  

Oops, sorry I missed the voting!
Still, I would have gone for either the 'mother' option or the winning one, so i'm not too upset. I'll try and get Jez to vote for me next time as I can only get on at weekends ;).

Great new chapter key, and I'm looking forward to chapter 8 :).

Solus.
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saxon215
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Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 pm    Post subject:  

yeah, who isent?
its got us all hanging on the edge of our seats
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D-Lotus
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:54 am    Post subject:  

True. Maybe the prolonged wait makes the new chapters even more intense, thought-out and suspenseful.
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Key
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:27 am    Post subject:  

New chapter posted. Locking this one.
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