City of IF

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject: Sherlock Holmes (Movie)

Wanted see if anyone has seen the new Holmes movie, and on the off chance that anypne's as big a holmes geek as me, what they thought of it.

Reiso · Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:18 pm Post subject:

It was pretty good. I wouldn't exactly call myself a Holmes Geek, but I was pretty into the books a few years back and am always fascinated by the different ways in which he is reinvented. This new one is far less of an action flick than it looks like in the Ads. Yes, this Holmes is more of a brawler than a swordsman, and Robert Downey's Holmes comes off as more of a loutish antagonist than a man of classical breeding, but that being said, he is no less brilliant. I especially like that this movie asks the question 'what if Sherlock Holmes applied his superhuman deductive reasoning to fist fights?' and answers it to a degree. Good plot, good direction, solid acting. I'm definitely picking up the Blu-ray. I should probably admit that I have a small bias, though; Robert Downey's work in recent years has been increasingly good, and I am slowly becoming a fan of his newly acquired acting chops.

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:21 pm Post subject:

I liked the fight scenes. I've read all 56 shorts stories and 4 novels multiple times (like I said, I am a geek) and Holmes was a good brawler when he had to be. The stories do mention him boxing in adition to fencing, and they do show how he had a somewhat off puting manner at times. The only thing that bugged me a little was the portrayal of Irene Adler. The books go out of their way to say that there never was a romantic connection between Irene and Holmes, it was more like she taught him a lesson by beating him. This wouldn't bother me so much if there wasn't a better candidate in the stories for a romantic interest.

Violet Hunter was a Character in "The adventure of the coper beaches". She is portrayed as being very observant and deductive, though not quite to the extent as Holmes, and as pretty coragous. In addition, Holmes was a lot more attentive to her than he usually was to his female clients, to the point where Watson comments on it, and the end implies that Holmes avoids her afterwards because he really was attracted to her. Why can't a movie version of Holmes incorporate this great character?

...Okay, I'm done ranting now.

The Meaning Of Fear · Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject:

Saw it with some (read=too many) friends a fair while back, and thought it was brilliant. I do, however, object to Watson's actor. He is good and the take on his character was hilarious... but he wasn't as fat as I imagined.

It bothers me. :?

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:52 pm Post subject:

I highly recomend the telivision series with Jeremy Bret and Edward Hardwick

Guyron · Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Posts: 34 Location: Bucharest, Romania

I think Holmes needed a hook-up with Adler. After all, it was the only woman he was fascinated by.

The bond between Holmes and Watson reminded me of Anne Rice's bond between Louis and Lestat. A bond that goes beyond what normal people understand when hearing the word "love".

And Watson doesn't really have to be fat. :)

scissorkitty · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject:

I really liked the movie! Now.. i have very little actual knowledge of Holmes and Watson in writing- I've never read any of their adventures. I've seen several incarnations on film and tv, and this pair was definitely my favourite so far- loved the awkward chemistry! If anyone watches the tv show "House".. very much similar to House and Wilson. Even down to the initials, actually! Interesting.

Hmm. Now that I think of it, there is a very direct correlation between the two....

hm.

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 7:43 pm Post subject:

That's becasue House is actually based on Sherlock holmes. There are other coorelations, Like House's guitaur playing and Holmes violin playing, and House hasd a vicodin addiction where Holmes has a cocain adiction

Guyron · Joined: 24 Nov 2009 Posts: 34 Location: Bucharest, Romania

Geek_girl72 wrote: That's becasue House is actually based on Sherlock holmes. There are other coorelations, Like House's guitaur playing and Holmes violin playing, and House hasd a vicodin addiction where Holmes has a cocain adiction

Yep, except House had three Irene Adler-s. His ex-wife, Cuddy and Cameron. And maybe more than one Moriarty.

scissorkitty · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:11 pm Post subject:

I agree.. i was thinking more and more about the House/Holmes correlation after writing that last night.

So.. obviously there's the names thing. House :Holmes (very haha)
Then there's Wilson :Watson (basic English surnames, called that instead of firstnames, and both starting with W.)

Then there's the characters themselves:
Chemical dependency, irate rants, strange behaviour in public and private. A liking to pry into lives of others, the off the wall comments and questions that seem to bear no meaning, and then solve the problem later on. Not to mention (as noted) the musical thing. Also, the gangly look of our two leading men and even the commitment to the psych ward (wasn't Holmes accused of insanity and/or committed at one time?)

Wilson and Watson are both quiet doctors, excellent bedside manners, likeable, genteel, good with groups and grieving. Often pulled into the fray to diffuse an awkward situation that Holmes/House has instigated.

Add in the love:hate:companionship relationship...

man. I love this! hehe. I am investing a little too much time into it, and probably stating the obvious over and over...

And i disagree- if we're going with the classic Irene Adler that GG mentioned from the stories, then the REAL Irene in the House series is actually, in my opinion, Number 13. She's often called lesbian, and thereby not a romantic foil for House in any way, and has an on/off again relationship with one of this co-workers. BUT- she often seems to come up with the solution to House's problems- with him prodding her along like an apprentice or something. He seems proud of her accomplishments.

So maybe his .. what was the other woman? His VIOLET is more likely to be Cuddy.

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:27 pm Post subject:

That's a very good observation, I wasn't looking for a violet character in house, but Cuddy would fit it.

I do like 13, she's a good contrast to House.

But back to holmes, someone mention him being acused of insanity. There is a story where holmes fakes an illness, one of the side effects being delerium, and fools watson into believeing he's loosing his mind. But it's all just a ruse.

Reiso · Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:09 pm Post subject:

Geek_girl72 wrote: But back to holmes, someone mention him being acused of insanity. There is a story where holmes fakes an illness, one of the side effects being delerium, and fools watson into believeing he's loosing his mind. But it's all just a ruse.

That is very interesting, because very similar things were done by both Detective Goren of Law & Order CI and Batman, characters both confessed by their creators (or in the case of Batman, a number of his writers), to also be somewhat based on Sherlock Holmes. This whole business of the similarities makes me wonder just how many brilliant characters out there are based on him, but more so, it makes me wonder if back when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle created Holmes, if he himself was based on some older literary character we have no current knowledge of. If so, I wonder just how long that archetype as been around?

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:28 am Post subject:

Holmes was actually based on real-life Doctor Bell (making house fitting) Dr. Bell was Doyle's teacher in Medical school, whom Doyle admired for his uncanny ability to descern intimite details about his patients by observing minute details. The real Dr. Bell insisted that he wasn't as brilliant as holmes, but Doyle maintained that he was.

scissorkitty · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:07 pm Post subject:

Hmm! That IS interesting! I wonder who Dr.Bell learned his investigative techniques from?

Reiso: that is an AWESOME question- the idea of an archetypal problem-solver. I mean really, if that's what it boils down to, there are numerous myths that involve a main male protagonist with eerily apt abilities at problem solving/sleuthing.

Asclepius (ancient greek healer, believed to the the father of medicine and doctors) carried a cane- which became the snake-twined symbol of medical practice today. The snakes apparently were magical and whispered answers in his ears regarding how to treat his patients.

Geek_girl72 · Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:00 pm Post subject:

I think it goes back to the idea of an orcle, someone who gives answers, but isn't exactly 'one of us'. I took a class on mystery fiction, and we discovered that the vast majority of detectives in fiction are portrayed as people outsiders in one way or another.

scissorkitty · Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:01 am Post subject:

I suppose that makes perfect sense. "All the better to observe" and all that. Hard to observe when you're part of the whole.

hmm.

PilgrimSoul · Joined: 07 Apr 2010 Posts: 56

Hmm, interseting conversation. I could very well be wrong, but the think the world's first 'detective' was actually Oedipus Rex. Of course, detection wasn't an occupation back then, but there was a crime, witnesses (complete with blocking and vague answers), an investigation, and a startling conclusion.

I love it when Greek mythology has modern-day correlations.

Also about what was said about the detective being an outsider, there are some notable Exceptions to this; Miss Marple comes to mind, who relies on the fact that she seems mundane and commonplace to gather her information.