City of IF

[Cyberworm]

Seeing how IF is setting a new record in scarcity of visits and posts, we need suggestions and actions on improving the life of IF, get to "old" writers, and maybe attract new writers.

I know there are quite a lot of newbies, but still the activity seems really low.

We cannot let IF squirm like this, with only a bit of energy here and there. If we don't do anything and wait for someone to do something, we are doomed.

Anyone who sees this, please post, even if it's just to say "I hear you there".

My suggestion is to send more PMs.

Everybody loves PMs and support, so I suggest you support your friends of IF and RL and send them messages that encourage them to work on IF!

Now, bombs away, and tell me your suggestions!

[Vishal Muralidharan]

Yep, we really seem to run low on activity here. This site is not really active, though it is a really good place to write, get support and learn. But I would suggest something different. Something out of our control.

What I feel must be done is a change in the interface. The present one looks quite dull, and is not something people would want to spend time looking at.

But, what we all can do is just be active. We need to remember our roles in this city. Post more often and what-not. SPREAD THE WORD to people who already aren't here. People who you think might be interested. Keep people coming, and we might generate some activity here.

Oh. And, "I hear you there"!!!! :cool:

[PopeAlessandrosXVIII]

Well, I must dissagree with the whole changeing the way the site looks. I myself enjoy the calm metalic look to the site.

As for getting more activity? I think there should be a function so that when a story you've faved gets any coments, or new chapters, you get a PM. I know I'm a little odd, but I don't think I'm the only one whe comes here more than they log on to their E-mail. Sure, you can always check the recent posts, but moer than once I've missed new chapters cause I logged-on, got distacted, and when I get back to the site, I gotta log on again. Thus wiping all the new posts.

I also think it'd help it there were more competitions. I myself am running one right now, buuut mines on a subject I know many writers avoid... Perhapes some of the older, more experienced IFians can post some challenging competitions in the Arena. Some "Word Battles Of DOOM" kinda' stuff!

Sounds fun to me, but I am only one...what do you think fellow IFians?

[Cyberworm]

Competitions are a good way to make things happen, since they have a deadline. People need a little more incentive, though. Hmmm...

The PM for posts on your SG sound good, though you can always put a story in your favorites and check it when you get the chance. :P Still, it's something worth suggesting to Key.

And if you posted in a thread, you'll be getting messages in your e-mail inbox, so I think that's about the same thing. ;)

I'm thinking about rewarding people for successfully writing a part of a story, or a whole story (the current reward for finishing an SG is 1000 Fables), but we need to make something more interactive, something that makes you say "I want to do that too!" or "I have to check my SG/RP/w.e.".

[Lebrenth]

Best thing to do for IF is participate. Whether it's writing a storygame or posting to one, activity attracts more activity. Making a good crowd-pleasing storygame can do a lot for the site, so if someone was interested in making a storygame with a lot of humor that is especially focused on including the readers, we may get more people back. Random topics in the open forum can be good too.

[Crunchyfrog]

Yup... the simple solution to the problem is to just get active. See a poll that's not been announced? Announce it. Bump the occasional storygame that may have been overlooked. PM your regulars when you've posted a new chapter.

If you want to receive email alerts when you receive a PM or if someone has posted in a thread you've posted in, you can adjust the settings in your profile.

Be active. Leave your mark on the site. Show us you've been here by adding a post when you visit. It's not spamming.

PM's, competitions, serious or crazy - are all good ways of getting things going.

When people see a more active site, they're more likely to want to hang around or join in.

:)

[Cyberworm]

Ah, thank you very much for your responce, Lebby and CF! It's good to see you are still around, haven't seen you in ages! :D

So, what do you think about the three of us hosting an almost open-source storygame in which IFians evolve by posting the funniest situation they can muster? ;)

[Crunchyfrog]

Tell me more.... :D

[Thunderbird]

I agree about the activity... the more we read and respond to others, the more we'll at least support ourselves. REFER the site to friends and family as much as possible as well. IF is a great place but we need to do some adjusting to the optimization that once made it bustling... till then all we can really do is just keep reading and posting, especially supporting the SGs that we all pour our hearts and efforts into.

Competitions are great but sometimes they don't get as much response because it just might be a bit more than someone's wanting to put in and I wouldn't want that to detract from reading and supporting the few really great and active storygames we have running. So I guess what I'm trying to say in that is if a particular comp doesn't get as much attention as we hoped, we shouldn't be dishearted by that.

[Emperor]

I hear you

[tramp in a storm]

I hear you! Surprisingly actually... Ive been dropping in every now and then but not for long. I think if we make lecturers give top marks without us doing any out-of-lesson work, we'd be on here a bit more often :p

Alternatively, i think having something which is simple to follow and that you can join into after some time without much catching up would be a good idea. I'm not too sure what, its just that when i come on and see that ive missed alot of something, i cant be bothered or dont have time to catch up again.

Its only half a plan lol maybe you guys can help with the other half :p

[Midnight]

HERE HERE! More activity is needed indeed.

[Exmortis]

I am here...

I saw the Santharian dream story game site crash. Half a dozen story games just shut down and because I can never commit to the development side of things I migrated to this site. Which as a matter a fact isn't that easy to find. I sorta stumbled across it a few years back and then found it very difficult to relocate it.

[kkdestiny]

I can hear you!

I occasionally try to kick the site into action a little. I will mention the site in my blog *nods determinely*

[Crunchyfrog]

tramp in a storm wrote: [color=blue]Alternatively, i think having something which is simple to follow and that you can join into after some time without much catching up would be a good idea. I'm not too sure what, its just that when i come on and see that ive missed alot of something, i cant be bothered or dont have time to catch up again.

Good point. We've got 4 two-word stories going on at the moment... Very quick and fun to do.

*digs them out*
http://www.cityofif.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6157&highlight=
http://www.cityofif.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6156&highlight=
http://www.cityofif.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6155&highlight=
http://www.cityofif.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6158&highlight=

Exmortis wrote: I saw the Santharian dream story game site crash. Half a dozen story games just shut down and because I can never commit to the development side of things I migrated to this site. Which as a matter a fact isn't that easy to find. I sorta stumbled across it a few years back and then found it very difficult to relocate it.
We want to make ourselves easier to locate - if you can remember what words you were using in your searches, that'd be a great help!

kkdestiny wrote: I will mention the site in my blog *nods determinely*
:tu:

[DeadManWalking]

Gah, I just clicked on Tramp's sig. It's been so long since that gif had been seen that I assumed it was the real thing.

While I did notice that the two-word at a time stories were popular, I'm not sure it would be a good thing if that became the main activity of this site (which, they very nearly are). I do realize that it is a good way to participate if you don't have much time (which, sadly, I have experienced myself) but it just doesn't seem to require nearly as much involvement as many others.

What if we could vote on which words the next two were? Have people suggest words and then have quick one or two day votes. Or, perhaps since that would make it too long, perhaps make sentence stories, where next sentences could be suggested and then voted on? It might require a lot of attention to be constantly setting up polls, but might it not be worth it edge slightly closer to the more IFy practice of storygaming?

[kkdestiny]

I have now put the cityofif in my blog. I can only hope this will do something for the site x.x

[Amichan]

To be honest one issue that some have is the same issue i do is trying to get that one idea down on paper and actually have it sound good .

For some its is a natural talent to write while others we are lucky if we can pull out a picture book story to save our hides some times. not to mention that a lot of us are dealing with RL issues as well ( i know i am one of them )

That and trying to keep interest on something that rewards you for writing but with no real way to use them for anything. ( this has been a constant issue )

Now dont get me wrong what we have is good its just the matter of how to make it better and hold everyones attention

[Thunderbird]

Kang wrote: To be honest one issue that some have is the same issue i do is trying to get that one idea down on paper and actually have it sound good .

For some its is a natural talent to write while others we are lucky if we can pull out a picture book story to save our hides some times. not to mention that a lot of us are dealing with RL issues as well ( i know i am one of them )

That and trying to keep interest on something that rewards you for writing but with no real way to use them for anything. ( this has been a constant issue )

Now dont get me wrong what we have is good its just the matter of how to make it better and hold everyones attention
I think I sort of understand what you mean but I've always felt the writing, in and of itself, was a reward. Here we can get feedback and an immediate response to the things we post which is certainly driving for me (of course I don't write as much as I'd like to because of my RL as well... dang thing) but none of us here expect ourselves or each other to be perfect. Its just a great place to sharpen our talents.

(And I've been missing your presence around here Kang so its nice to see you pop in!)

[Key]

DeadManWalking wrote: While I did notice that the two-word at a time stories were popular, I'm not sure it would be a good thing if that became the main activity of this site (which, they very nearly are). I do realize that it is a good way to participate if you don't have much time (which, sadly, I have experienced myself) but it just doesn't seem to require nearly as much involvement as many others.

What if we could vote on which words the next two were? Have people suggest words and then have quick one or two day votes. Or, perhaps since that would make it too long, perhaps make sentence stories, where next sentences could be suggested and then voted on? It might require a lot of attention to be constantly setting up polls, but might it not be worth it edge slightly closer to the more IFy practice of storygaming?
I think the appeal of two-word stories is simplicity and quickness, so I'd be concerned that adding polls would take away from what's attractive about them. But the ones we have tend to be dragging a bit. Anyone have thoughts on how we might speed them up? Maybe have an overall word limit, or put in more of a structure to move them along?

[kkdestiny]

..threaten the authors with death for failure of logging in in the next month or so? :D -kidding!-

edit: i thought you were talking about getting the SGs moving...sorry :p

[Amichan]

One of the issues that is facing some writers is fnding a plot that hasnt been used .. some of your fantsay ones are tough come by while others in the other genres are more apt to haveing an opportunity its just moanly finding that one ploat that you hope no one has thought of and running with it

[Scheherazade]

I'm fully agreed that activity begets activity, but why has there been so little activity?

I think this is because the focus of this site is on massive story-games, and authors only come out with maybe one 1,000-word chapter every month or half-month or so. That's not really incentive to check back to the site every day, let alone multiple times every day.

What I think might help is a section for light storygames - one or two actions per DP, not a full chapter. This puts more of the story in the hands of the readers, gives more immediate feedback, and lightens the load on authors. This will give our citizens more reason to return to this site, even multiple times per day.

Consider this site as a model of how this may work: http://www.mspaforums.com/forumdisplay.php?85-Forum-Adventures
This is a subforum - one of a dozen or so subforums - connected to MS Paint Adventures. They do have a huge help in participation because a lot of people there check back to the main site many times every day, because the author of the main storylines will often post groups of pages more than once per day, but I'm confident that even lacking such a prolific central figure, we can at least increase participation by having more and less substantial updates :)
(as a side note, definitely give Problem Sleuth and Homestuck a read, because they are awesome stories with awesome art.

<edit>aaaaaaand now I scroll up and see Key's comment. Consider this a partial answer to your question of how to get things moving! A lot of forum adventure authors will do things like using the first suggestion that is posted and writing/drawing their response and posting it immediately, a process which can take as little as 5-10 minutes per command/DP. That does, however, rely on the massive traffic that the MSPA forums get. </edit>

<edit the 2nd>Oh - perhaps, for the light versions of storygames, polls might be removed? I know it's a distinguishing feature of IF, and allowing for things the author didn't intend is a really cool effect of polls, but having a few days or even a week or so in between posting really really slows down updates, and thus lessens reader traffic.</edit>


Oh, and this may just be me, but I'd like to see fewer contests with fewer rewards - maybe just signature/profile badges, at the most. The more people write because they want to write and experience an awesome community (intrinsic motivation), the more rewarding it will be for them; having the focus on rewards like Fables and badges and whatever (extrinsic motivation) actually tends to reduce the long-term satisfaction in doing something.
(that being said, a speed-story contest where contestants and non-contestants alike can see each story as they unfold would be pretty awesome - maybe a time limit of an hour or two).

[Lebrenth]

Ok, well I disagree about a few things, but the ideas on that site are pretty cool. I remember Argonaut was fun to have around for visual SG's. We've attempted visual stuff a little, but mostly we're authors around here.

The contests aren't really an issue, I think, as no one is required to participate. As far as extrinsic and intrinsic rewards, I don't think it really counts to call Fables extrinsic. I like have Fables because of a sense of distinction. I'm in the Top 10 richest IFians, and I think that's pretty cool. It's kind of like "Recognition Points" and being able to send recognition to someone for something they've done is cool too. I don't get any special privileges because of them (not really). Anyway, it wouldn't be hard to take advantage of the system and get as many as you like. They only mean anything because I earned them.

Short SG's are a great idea, and they've been done sometimes as well. But the issue here is getting enough comments to continue to the next chapter and not losing your readers. Most SG's survive because of loyal readership of just a couple of members who may or may not check the SG everyday. If I shrunk the suggestion duration, I may leave a reader behind, and from there it would be a war of attrition. Other times, an SG may not get a comment for a week, so to stay on schedule, the author has to move forward without any suggestions.... Ungroovy.

Storygames as an art form is a slow process, you have to enjoy the stories as something that grows over the course of months. Modern society is not accustomed to stories like this, as they want entire stories to go from start to finish in 2 hours time (3 hours if its really good). SG's can not compete with that, so they have to offer something different. Something different that takes a lot of time. I presume the picture based stories do well because you can finish a chapter in a couple of seconds. ... Not saying it isn't fun, I'm just saying it's not the same.

Essentially, I'm saying that you could make the chapters shorter with less time between, and when the City is hopping, it happens, but you don't really have the storygame experience if the chapters don't rely on participant input, and waiting for input is why the process has to go so slow (as well as the fact that reading and writing takes a long time too).

[Thunderbird]

We've seen a number of 'speedgame' efforts made on the site and they often end up devolving into a more standard length (both in text and in delay between chapters) and much of this is because of how long it takes, as Lebby said, for replies to come in.

Mind you, I would think some great speedgame efforts would be really cool to have going on the site, because on the flipside, you're right that it would help to inspire folks to login more regularly, giving even the longer stories the ability to move a bit faster.

[Crunchyfrog]

Did I just see Masterweaver on that site? :D *waves at MW*



Scheherazade, I found myself nodding in agreement pretty much all the way through your post. Yes, long story-cycles probably make for longer periods between logins. Long chapters restrict the number of opportunities a reader might have to sit down in front of a screen and read, digest, and play those chapters.

Yes, activities with a quick turnaround that do not tax participants too much can encourage more frequent logins.

Yes, the author, or any person controlling or running something online needs to be reliably there on a regular basis to keep the ball rolling.

Yes, the suggestion phase and poll for each DP can slow things down.

Having said all of that though, I'd like to add that, long or short, taxing or not, an activity - whether it's a competition, storygame, RP, wordgame or whatever, it must be compelling enough if it is going to keep people logging back in - and making the time to do so.



I understand what you mean by badges, awards and fables providing extrinsic motivation. Although they give a great sense of achievement, they'd count for very little if there's no awesome community underpinning the motivation to earn them.

The only area I don't really agree with is the number of contests and such - if you're referring to those contests that individuals run in the Writers' arena... If well designed they can produce some prolific activity.


editz - Also looks at Key's post... :blush: Quote: I think the appeal of two-word stories is simplicity and quickness, so I'd be concerned that adding polls would take away from what's attractive about them. But the ones we have tend to be dragging a bit.Anyone have thoughts on how we might speed them up? Maybe have an overall word limit, or put in more of a structure to move them along?

I think the reason they're dragging is because nobody knows how they're going to end. There's no real story arc, and no contributor can really engineer one with just two words at a time. Perhaps we could set a word limit. Could be 500 words or 1000 words. With the word length cap, there may be more chance of a story coming to a satisfactory close.

We could try it with different lengths and see how it goes.


Well, as my 4 year, 40+ storygame is drawing to a close, I might try something speedier and lightweight and see how it goes. :D

[Vishal Muralidharan]

Ahh... I have nothing more to say... except that I do log in multiple times a day, but I stay logged in for a serious amount of time just the once. All other times its just a quick log on-log off.

ALSO, Crunchyfrog... Here's the exact wording I used to find City Of IF from google... "Online Writing Resources"... Got it on the very first link!

[Lebrenth]

Vishal Muralidharan wrote: ALSO, Crunchyfrog... Here's the exact wording I used to find City Of IF from google... "Online Writing Resources"... Got it on the very first link!

Very nice! I'm glad to hear that, especially as a first link!

[Scheherazade]

(I didn't mean to suggest using pictures any more than you have already been; I was suggesting no more than thinking about borrowing some elements of the MSPA forum's style of story, namely the smaller and more reader-driven updates.)

Upon reflection, it is sort of useless to discuss extrinsic and intrinsic rewards as relate to fables, because whoever doesn't care about them can just ignore them, and if you do care then you still have them.

It's true that people won't automatically start flocking to the City and/or posting if storygames update more often, but over time the number of visits/posts could be increased if people can be reasonably sure of at least one of the stories they follow having updated in the past 24 or 48 hours. The best way that I can see to start this happening, assuming a promising short adventure starts at some point, is for the author to update within a day or so of X amount of suggestions or poll votes, and though that will start with perhaps weekly or bi-weekly updates it could speed up.

How I propose this could happen is, for the purposes of short-form storygames only, authors perhaps look at their posts in a different light: rather than a single Chapter every time, each update could be a fraction of a chapter - simply an update, no more. Chapters might take the same amount of time, or even longer, but they would come out gradually instead of all at once.
This would potentially solve the problem of storygames being tough to get into if you're not there in the beginning; I know that many of the storygames I find are well into their plot, and after reading five or ten or more chapters in a day, waiting up to a full month (or more) for the chance to read another chapter and suggest something in a way that matters seems infestissimally slow (of course, that may just be me being all Modern and impatient and such).

The only problem I have with this suggestion is that it would drastically change the flavour of short-form storygames. I would not like to see IF's unique take on interactive writing become something less fantastic and unique, but I lack the storygaming experience to tell if this would mesh at all with what already exists here. Your thoughts?

[Lebrenth]

------------------------------------------------------------
Here's an overview of my completed SG's (so you know my experience):
Heroes Never Panic: Dec 30 2005 - Oct 29 2006, 23 Chapters, 2.3/month
Eve of Destruction: Jan 25 2006 - May 21 2006, 10 Chapters, 2.5/month
Fabled Island: Sep 25 2006 - April 14 2007, 15 Chapters, 2.1/month
Made in Taiwan: Dec 23 2009 - Jul 29 2010, 7 Chapters, 1/month
------------------------------------------------------------
Here are the stats of the current Top 5 Storygames of IF:
Heavy Metal: Sep 13, 2009 - Mar 20 2011, 15 ch, 0.8/month
Nightmares Trilogy Part 1: Aug 24 2010 - Mar 3 2011, 8 ch, 1.1/month
Murder in the Intergalactic Garden: Sep 28 2010 - Mar 27 2011, 6 ch, 0.8/month
SparkleSteps: Dec 14 2009 - Feb 16 2011, 11 ch, 0.7/month
Is this me?: Oct 11 2010 - Feb 9, 2011, 4 ch, 1/month
------------------------------------------------------------


I aim for about 1000 words a chapter and ideally I post every two weeks. Though occasionally all of the regular participants respond quickly with a unanimous decision, usually it seems necessary to have 1 week for suggestions, and then 1 week for polling. This is the schedule I recommend to anyone who brings up the subject, along with the advice that they plan to conclude the storygame within 20 chapters. I've seen a lot of storygames come and go, finish or fizzle, and I stand by these guidelines as generally the best practices for a popular storygame. You can also use the "1 chapter per month" formula, which to me is a bare minimum because SG's are like house plants, if you skip a month of taking care of them, they die. We have a storygame that may attempt a resurrection soon, and I wish it luck, but I suspect it will not be able to regain momentum after so long of a hiatus.

Scheherazade, I hear you when you talk about shorter and faster storygames, and they are possible, but I think it is necessary to acknowledge the limitations of the medium. I say 2 weeks is ideal because anything sooner is too likely to lose readers, so it is the fastest we can go and faster is better. It would be fantastic if we could go even faster, if an author could upload a chapter, take suggestions, and put up a poll within a single day, but we're not there yet.

In the meantime, we also need to follow a guideline of at least 1000 words. This is because participants are "waiting up to a full month (or more) for the chance to read another chapter". For that kind of a wait, the product better be good. Otherwise, it would be like having a pen pal who sends letters the size of text messages. Every other week you would get a message like: "good, u?". Some SG's, like SparkleSteps and Magician's Touch, overcome the lengthy waits by making the chapters 2000-3000+, and their readers are grateful for the updates, and the chance to really dig into the story before the next wait. Also, it needs to have as much completion as a normal book chapter since all of those squirrelly loose ends will get away, because no one (except the author) can keep track of them all. Heck, even remembering the name of the main character can be challenging.

We don't really need to change how storygames are done to see vast improvement. Two chapters a month is twice as fast as any of the storygames currently running, and 1000 words isn't very long. If we could achieve that, then we could work our way up. Show me the City of IF with just five good quality storygames reliably updating every two weeks, and I'll show you a thriving and prosperous web forum that is never referred to as a barren wasteland.

[Thunderbird]

For me, as a Storygame author, I find that speed kills too. It is ever-too possible to outrace your audience. If you want longterm viability, you have to be able to maintain your readership.

My first SG on IF was posted once a week. Back then, this was during an era when Key was drawing in people right and left with both excellent optimization and a great featured storygame (one of his Wheel series stories) which he himself was establishing a one chapter a week precedent with.

As time went on, those who stayed on the site tended to get bogged down with so many stories being posted - trying to keep up meant that you had to spend so much more time reading than writing your own tale. And I think it was somewhere in that span of time that we ended up finding an average of once a month to keep the readers that had posted before coming back reliably between each chapter.

For a time, I was writing 3 stories. Two of these were posting once a month and the third was posted every other week. (it was more capable of moving faster due to the manner in which it was run - a little different than the usual sg.) This meant I was writing a chapter every weekend.

Since then, I developed some other things happening in my life and am trying to keep myself to at least once a month. I do this by asking myself to try to keep up with a chapter every other week (doesn't usually happen as often as I hoped.)

Those who post much faster than once every other week run a serious risk of losing readers who don't check in as often. They risk getting so far into the story, so fast, that nobody wishes to try to catch up. Then there's a natural decay of readers that fall out as they leave the site for other interests... and violla, we have the fate of one of our best SGs ever, Kallanna's 'Galleons of the Stars'... didn't quite make it to the end before all readership had vanished and the new blood found it too long to get into.

So while we all feel like we're gonna charge in and write out our chapters once a week or even once every other week, or sometimes even faster, the reality is, the speed we select is probably more about keeping our readers along for the ride while keeping potential new readers from growing more and more intimidated to try to catch up with each new chapter posted. An average of a month seems to fit the goldylocks zone there.

In the beginning of an SG, you want to leave chapters open for at least a couple weeks to give readers a chance to catch on. Then, down the road, when you are past the point that you can expect to get more readers, it may be time to speed up a bit, but not toooo fast, because you still need your readers to have time to catch up to the latest before you want to move on.


To me, this is not the job of the site leaders to determine how fast sgs should be posted - that's the author's preference. And we all play with ways to make our sgs more attractive. But the reality is, if we want a more active site, its up to each of us, individually, to READ other SGs, catch on to them and add your voice to their DPs. THAT shows activity. And the faster we, as READERS, react to chapters being posted on our favorite tales, the faster we will inspire the author to post the next chapter.

[Vishal Muralidharan]

Ah HA!... Im the fastest of the top 5!

But still, I agree that speed is killing the city. Making people wait would just end up in a much slower and less interactive web forum.

I would like to be faster with my stories, but unfortunately, I live in a place with massive influence of culture and spiritualism, which takes up half my time. Also, I don't have a fixed time for the suggestion phase. Once I feel, I have enough (good) suggestions, I start a one week poll.

This way suggestion periods can end in a few days or atmost 1 and a half weeks, and then I have a one week poll.

BUUT here's the good news. I am COMPLETELY free for the next 2 months (I would have been completely busy if I was a farmer), and I will try to make my SG faster. Of course, in these two months, there will be a lot of visiting, and ceremonies held, but I am sure I can speed up. :)

[Lebrenth]

Good advice, Vishal. Waiting for posts usually works pretty well. I think there is an advantage still to have a set schedule, that way participants know when to expect another chapter, ready or not. It encourages regular participants to post within a definite amount of time rather than just when they happen to wander in. It also encourages participants because they like to know when to expect another chapter. It becomes a promise the author makes repeatedly, and if the author follows through, he gains credibility. When you're following a storygame, you like to know it will get somewhere, and the only way you can be assured of this is if the author maintains credibility and doesn't break promises.

By the way, your daily activities from the glimpse you just gave us sounds extremely interesting. You should tell us more about yourself and your culture.

[Vishal Muralidharan]

Almost Midnight here.... I love telling people about myself ... when Im not sleepy though.. :D :cool:

[Muaddib]

I want to restart this debate. Come up with more ideas. Apart from improving the site, how else could we attract more members?

I'm really intrigued by the process by which people actually first find the site. I remember there used to be a thread asking," how did you find this site?". A lot of people had been looking for MMORPGs.

I'm not entirely clear on how a site can show up on different google keyword searches but maybe tweaking that around a bit could land us some more visitors.

Also, my own recollection of the City's previous avatar, Interfable, is that there were fewer but more active members. I remember that even my poorly written stories would get a dozen replies within a day of posting. I'm keen on finding out the reason for why that's changed.

[Andolyn]

you know...just a thought...and a disclaimer: this is all i will say on the topic, i wont be visiting this or any of the other threads on the topic hereafter, but if we spent HALF of the time we WASTED in here debating this stuff and the crap drama on some of the other threads READING and COMMENTING on the SGs ((which, correct me if i'm wrong are the PURPOSE of this site??)) this thread wouldnt even exist. it wouldnt have to. every time i sign on it seems, there's a new person, but they never stay very long...why? BECAUSE NO ONE BOTHERS TO HELP THEM OR KEEP UP WITH THEIR STORIES. why?? BECAUSE THEYRE TOO WRAPPED UP IN TEARING EACH OTHER APART OR DEBATING POINTLESS TOPICS.

SHAPE UP IF!! if you dont, we'll all fall apart! and another hint?? the shaping up starts at the TOP. our LEADERS need to come together so that the rest of us can.

[Cyberworm]

Lyn, that's right on the spot. :)

But alas, I almost forgot about this thread, and am thinking of removing it. It was started a while ago during the last, similar situation.

Nevertheless, your point is very valid and solid.

:)

[Muaddib]

It's my time to waste is it not?

Furthermore, I don't see how this thread can lead to people tearing each other apart. It's whole point is to discuss ideas to attract the attention of more people. Maybe the reason a lot of people sign up but don't participate actively is because we're going about something the wrong way.

But please if you feel that this thread is a waste by all means get rid of it.

EDIT: Also I may be missing something huge, but I just haven't seen any evidence of some huge fracas between members. Yes, there have been a few tiffs here and there but nothing too big. I don't think the problem is in-fighting between members, I think it's that small incidents are vastly exaggerated.

[Cyberworm]

No, I had no such views, Muaddib.

I simply thought that this specific thread has done its purpose at the time it was created, during the last reduction of activity in IF, and I must deeply apologize here, for I only got the notification of Andolyn posting in the thread, and I have missed your post while viewing the thread in a hurry. In fact, I have not recieved notification of any reply other than the last one at the time, Andolyn's. I have not realized it became active again.

I sincerely apologize for my mistake. :( I am glad you are restarting the thread and utilizing its existence, for otherwise it would really have no use.

You are correct in your observation that Interfable had less, but more active members. I see the goal here as to make the current members more active, rather than attracting new ones, but it would be wrong if we centered around just the present members.

So yes, we need all the members we have and can get. I suggest that we revive the other threads ourselves, dividing in two groups and concentrating one on new members, and one on the current members. 2 cents. :)

[Muaddib]

I like that idea. I was thinking something along the same lines. If there are like-minded people who are willing to commit (purely on an honor basis) to follow new and/or old stories then we can really get things going.

I'm currently very interested in :

1) Children of Leyond - Kalanna Rai

2) Death Day - PopeAlessandrosXVIII

3) Rotch - Tavanesh

4) Heavy Metal - Thunderbird


Obviously, if any more stories catch my fancy, I'll start following them as well.