City of IF

Muaddib · Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 1765

So...

I came back to the site after a long time. A lot has changed and the new site looks very good!

But I have a couple of observations I'd like to share and some thoughts on those observations:

1) There seem to be many more sections (romance, speedwriting etc.) which is great. But there are also dozens of more threads with only a few posts each and unfortunately a lot of them are dedicated to very specific and small issues. As a semi-objective observer, they make the various sections look cluttered.

2) I was around when Fables were first introduced. Although they're fun and I'm a big fan of hoarding, there's no real incentive for me to try and earn fables (or strata-gems).

So, my possible solution to both these issues is to create a strong incentive for earning fables. I think that if there was a cost to every new thread that one wished to start, the number of dissembling threads would reduce. Also this would provide a strong reason to read others' stories and participate more in as many SGs as possible. There could be a varying cost structure depending on which section a person wants to start a new thread (E.g. Open forum threads would cost less that storygame threads).

Obviously all this is without any personal judgement. I was always guilty of starting too many storygames (later left unfinished) and also of not participating enough in others' SGs.

Drawbacks to this solutions are that many visitors will be daunted by the commitment of earning enough fables to start their own threads. Additionally, I don't know how King Key (which sounds a lot like King Kenny!) or any of the other patricians would feel about restricting new members from starting their own threads.

So Please feel free to carry out a discussion on these issues. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks.
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Thunderbird · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:37 am Post subject:

Been a lot of debate on issues like these.

We've been trying a number of new ideas to try to get some more value in fables and some still have more development to come around yet.

The concept you propose is certainly under some consideration... probably always has been. Especially when sites like Critique Circle do so well utilizing a similar approach if not worse. But we keep falling back on the downsides you mentioned as cause to stay away from it for now. Certainly its always going to be something that will probably be tried at some point.

Hoping, at the moment still, to give other reasons to want fables. And some of that could be achieved by other users much as C'ren and I have shown in previous projects such as Greed and Superhuman.

PopeAlessandrosXVIII · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:35 am Post subject: My Idea

Thunder-sama? Would it be OK for me to mention my big idea for Fables and Strata-gems?

Thunderbird · Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject:

Of course... shoot Pope! I'm soon to do a bit of an overhaul based on previous concepts thrown about - might as well toss in what you have in mind now.

Key · Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 2652 Location: The Royal Palace

And welcome back, Muaddib!

:-)

PopeAlessandrosXVIII · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:54 am Post subject: My Idea

Well, my idea is kinda simple, but very complecated at the same time.....

IF is a city, right? And what do cicies need? People and Buildings! So here was my idea. . . .

Making homes/buisnesses type things, and actual visual picture, and the furnature and such would be purchased with Fables. The actual items to purchse would be stuff from the SGs themselves, which would in my oppinion be an insentive to start/continue SGs. Each home would come standard with a bookshelf of coarse, to "hold" people SGs, but the rest of the stuff...We could have a basic set of stuff, couches, windows, side tables and so on, but then there would be a different collection, or many collaetions of things straight out of SGs. Odd furnature bits, or pictures on the wall, and so on.....It's just and idea....

And as for Strata-Gems, it's the same idea, except one difference. Insted of houses, these would be udes to dress up an avitar. Starts with a basic outfit, but can be fitted with costumes and weapons and gadgits from SGs.

I know, this would take a major overhaul and tecnical genius to pull off, which is why I don't see it happening anytime soon, but as far as insentive to collect fables and other currancies? I'd find it major incentive.

Well, that's my idea in a nutshell.....

HalfEmptyHero · Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:36 pm Post subject:

No offense meant, but how is that an incentive to those of us who aren't in it for the roleplaying? I've always said that I'm more of a writer and less of a roleplayer, so using fables to purchase non-existent furniture to a non-existent house does nothing for me. I like how it used to be, where there was a new storygames district and then you had to qualify, or pay perhaps, to be upgraded to a certain section.

Muaddib · Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 1765

Thanks Key!

I agree that there's probably two kinds of people who visit the City: writers and roleplayers. What I personally always loved about the City was the almost instant feedback one would get on one's story.

I think Fables already can buy a lot of things to please roleplayers and gamers. But I agree with HalfEmptyHero that those who like the City for storywriting need something else to spend their fables on.

For example, if I were writing a storygame I would be very keen on paying fables to someone willing to edit my story and provide me with attractive fonts and coloring etc. since I'm bad at that sort of thing. I know this service was already in place once. But my concern is, what does the person doing the editing, spend his newly earned fables on (if she falls into the writer category)?

Also, I was recently reading a book on behavioral finance and one of the things that behaviorists have observed about people is that when you provide them with too many options, they tend to become indecisive, inefficient and apathetic. Maybe, the ease with which new threads can be started contributes to low traffic on the site. I think its possible that people can't decide which thread they want to commit their time to and get put off.

Another idea regarding fables and storygame threads. Even if it doesn't cost anything to open a thread, maybe we can have a system where a storygame that lies dormant too long starts bleeding the fables of the author. This would add a risk/return dimension to the whole thing- on the one hand, by being regular with your storygame you could earn a lot of fables and readers while being tardy would lose you both readers and fables.

Another idea ++: We could have a dedicated reader system i.e. you can become a dedicated reader of someone else's storygame. A dedicated reader's posts in the storygame thread would earn them double the fables. But then again the problem is, what do you do with all those fables.

Sorry for the long post. :?

PopeAlessandrosXVIII · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:43 am Post subject: Oki...

O kay, thanks for the big kick in the face guys....... The idea had nothing to do with RPing, and literaly had somthing to do with building a CITY. As for two KINDS of people, that too, really hurt. I AM a writer, and yes I am beginning to enjoy RPing, but the way it was stated was that an RPer is LESS then a witer..... I don't know, I just find the response to my idea mean and in poor taste.... As for having to pay for getting your SGs up, I dispise the idea. "If your not good enough, then we won't let you in the club" type thing. It's very detrimental to the crative spirit...... I may be a moron for thinking so, but who wouldn't want to see their stories in full living color, even as just little pictures.

I don't know, it all just felt like a "F**k that stupid idea" moment from you guys......

Muaddib · Joined: 31 Dec 2004 Posts: 1765

I don't think anybody was disrespecting you or your idea. I don't think you're a moron and I'm aware of your writing abilities as "Death Day" is one of the storygames I'm currently following.

I didn't mean that RPers and writers are distinct groups. It just seems to me that some like the idea of spending Fables in the same fashion as one would on MMORPGS i.e. to purchase in-game goodies which add to virtual existence. I'm personally looking for else to spend my Fables on.

Also a clarification- the idea is that you're allowed to set up SGs only after paying a certain amount of fables. This would have nothing to do with content of the SG or whether the writer is good enough. It would be all about how much you participate on the site. Even Shakespeare would have to participate and earn enough Fables before starting his own thread.

I also agree that all writers would love to see their creation on the website. But you'll agree with me that more than that, the thrill is when people read and react to your stories. I believe this only possible if the members of this City balance their time as readers and writers.

PopeAlessandrosXVIII · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: Well........

Well, that was part of the draw I was aiming for. People could collect these items, you know the less "Reader" type people, and the items themselves could form a draw to the SG that the item had come from. I don't know if that sounds backwards, but just think of it. They come across this really kool item, then wonder where it came from and want to go look up the stry it came from. I do that on occassion.

I didn't mean to snap, I was just reeeeaaallly touchy when I wrote it....The massive headache didn't help.

Also, as a side note, I notice a few people comsissioning artist to make banners and pictures of things for their SGs, so that's kinda an addition to my idea. It would cost just to have the thing made...I'd love to see a little model of the space ship from Lebrenth's Murder in an Intergelactic Garden, or the killer playing cards from Andolyn's story..... I just have this vision of people seeing the items and going "I wonder just what this is, and what it does" and scooting over to the stories to read about them....

Thunderbird · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:21 am Post subject:

I've been observing for a bit here.

Pope: love your idea BUT its basically a whole software set to consider and we've got some concepts on the table for moving forward into SOME of this stuff slowly IF we ever get back around to it. More help needed in the programmer's circle since Ingro has been sidetracked. I haven't been as much of a help there as hoped either, sadly. But yeah, cool concept but it'll take a long while to get there and take some levels of commitment which are difficult to imagine coming in from anyone at the moment. And I'm not worried about what naysayers may have about it - if they don't USE the mechanism (which we somewhat have coming together in 'the City' already as it grows and evolves) then that's not a problem since the concept does not REQUIRE participation.

Muad: Great thinking. I THINK I could establish a way for the cash mod to require fables to post but there are some minute complications with the concept. Getting around them is one thing (think of what it means to the author who has their own forum...) But do we WANT such a concept to be implemented?

The arguments for it are completely sound. They all make a lot of sense. But the one argument against it is very powerful in my mind: we want NOTHING to detract or deter a new member. (then again the feeling of EARNING the right to run an SG is not a bad thing either...)

I like the idea of bleeding fables for untouched threads... would take some serious modding.

We have 'dedicated' readership of a sort from the Favorites system. But until we get down what fables will be used for, awarding more for using the favorites may not be worthwhile - and will take some serious modding as well.

You brought up paying for visual modifications to your story pages and THAT IS in the works as a project on the table now - though all projects are currently shelved for a bit I think. I was going to work on much of the particulars of that one but I always want to be doing about 10 things at once and sadly discover I can't. So its something I'll get around to...