City of IF

[Hak]

What's more depressing than spilling your favorite drink all over before you even get a sip? The lack of activity around the city!

What's going on IF? Where'd we all run off to, or are we just lurking about as usual? It's a sad state when I check back three days in a row and only see three new posts.

I know I am definitely not one to speak in the way of activity. I mean heck, I pop in to uptade and read, but never respond, but NO MORE!

I have a few ideas, and I would love if you all threw some out there too:

1.) More competitions and group active SGs
2.) Maybe a layout revamp
3.) Active art/poetry/short story games
4.) maybe a couple flash games, if possible

and my brain's too frazzled to think of any more at the moment.




IF, it's all on you to bring this city back to life!

[Thunderbird]

IF seems to be undergoing a collection of internet website diseases. They are like viruses, really.

First, we suffer from, "Notcoolenoughus". Part of the problem is that we're not as stimulating as other sites and online activities, thus we've lost our absolute best contributors to MMORPGs.

Then we have "Idon'tagreeitis" which means that many have left simply because they don't agree with the way things are taking place or who is allowed to be here or not.

And finally, and this has been the most recent and most deadly disease of all, the "Nobody'spayingattentiontomesoImightaswellnotpaytheattentionIwasn'tpayingtothemanyhowitus". In short, this really lethal killer has been taking one victim at a time and leaving us bereft of any activity whatsoever. The problem starts when someone posts a story. They don't get read because those authors that are here are just waiting for people to post on what they've posted and couldn't give a rats ass to support the other authors that have read (or not) their own stuff. So since nobody feels read and supported, nobody reads and supports anyone else.

The original vision of IF assumed one thing incorrectly. And that is that people want to read. All along, throughout the history of human events, books have cost money and resources to publish and distribute so we had something to entertain ourselves with.

Now, particularly here in the amateur arena, authors must practically pay to BE read. It is considered going out of our way and doing something for one another to read someone else's story. And, if they aren't willing to at least do that for you then 'to hell with them' has been growing to become the going way of seeing it around here. It seems that many times we give our time to read someone's story and because they don't give the same in return, we give up on reading theirs. When someone finds they don't have the time they used to have to read as much as they used to, we get offended that they aren't showing the same enthusiasm towards our stories and once again, even though they still eventually, reliably, come back time and again to post replies on our tales, to hell with them because they don't do it fast enough.

Then there's the, "Ifyoudon'twritewellenoughthenitsjustnotworthmytimetohelpyoutoimproveonitcuzyournevergoingtoimproveanyhownorwillIrecognizethatmaybeitsjustaschallengingto readmyownworksattituditus". Aka, I don't have to read and support others. If they like my stuff they'll read it. If not they won't. I'm above having to be supportive attitude. This one tends to spark off a rash of the previous disease.

And on a related note, there's: Nobodyissupportingmeoranyoneelsearoundheresotohellwiththesiteentirelitus." This one is the final and lethal stroke that seems to be the note most of us have been leaving on. I've been battling this one myself. The RL gremlins, jobs, stress, and simply having other things to do, have been making things tough but its even harder when you just don't feel appreciated.


My point is that the road to recovery will be long and arduous and will require a lot of emotional strength to overcome. We need to start giving more to each other than we expect to receive. We need to understand that everyone here is here to be heard and paid attention to MORE than they wish to pay attention to you. The more we give to one another, the more the site will thrive. The more we demand of each other, the more it will falter. Yes, some of the best authors rarely read anyone's stuff... and though they are really good with what they write, the site suffers for this selfishness. Until we all grow up and realize this, we're going to sit here continuing to suffer in inactivity.

[Hak]

Well, what if we had something like NASTOREMO (NationalStoryReadingMonth)
Your diesase post actually makes me want to read more, so I'll get on that! Aslo, what if, to promote reading and response, what if we try to incorperate some rewards for keeping active in SGs not our own? like an Honorable SGamer award?

Also, we can get some banners up and spam places like Deviantart and Gaiaonline, and FACEBOOK. Maybe an IF app. XD

Thanks for replying, luv.

[HalfEmptyHero]

Yep, T-Bird has pretty much struck the nail on the head. But there is also the idontlikethisguyandwontreadhisstuffitus which is when personalities come into play. Someone does something that offends someone else, and that person in returns refuses to even look at the other person's work. He might like it, but doesn't care. I remember when I tried joining this other writing forum once and the first thing someone said to me offended me so much that I never went back. It wasn't meant to offend me, but it did and I didn't even give the person (or the forum) a chance.

This is also affected by the large amount of drama that goes around on the site. People get into this little clicks and everything starts going to hell. Everyone forgets about actually writing and just starts a mass backstabbing and insult game.

I am a mass offender of what T-Bird wrote, although most of it comes down to laziness. One of the big problems comes down to timing. If I do not manage to start reading an SG within the few few chapters it takes I don't even give it a try. There's no way of fixing that, I just need to stop being lazy.

Once I start writing again I'll make a big push to start reading a lot of different storygames, so long as they are not in the fantasy forest (sorry I just can't do fantasy anymore). It's quite funny really, the only way to stimulate activity is with activity. Nobody will even bother with an unpopular website.

[Lilith]

You have a lot of 'itus''s there, ThunderBird. Hope you've got a good dose of ibuprofen and motrion to deal with all that inflammation. ;) Just kidding.

(Yep, I'm going to go through these infections of yours and snap through my instant opinion of them. If you don't like it, skip to the last three sections of this post.)

On a serious level, I really am not an offender of 1 - as I play on a play-by-post theme-based RolePlay on Proboards most evenings (Well not lately, like tonight, I passed out around 8 o'clock, only to wake up twice during it, the second time being 11:15 to find that 'OMG! I fell asleep and left everyone hanging! I'm a horrible person!' So now I'm typing up this response while having a peanut butter crunchy granola bar and a glass of water, trying to see if this pounding pain in my head will subside soon. [Please whatever deity is up there, I would really appreciate it!]), and I'd assume that's more uncool that IF. Way. As for MMORPGs? I play on 2. LOTRO and GW. I've been a fan of 1 for a short time and 2 for a very, very long time, and I play on either one maybe once a week and that's maybe a couple of hours at a time. It's not that I don't like them, I do. It's really nice. I just don't like level grinding or farming or creating weapons and armor and all that other side crap. I WANT the story. That's why I read on IF.

But I notice a lot of IFians who are, and I'm not quite sure why. Which all might boil down to the fact that I'm weird and I don't play MMOs for the reason they were created, but hey, that's that.

Number 2 - This makes me giggle. I'm so sorry to admit it but it does. My initial response is... so, two parties have a different opinion. Okay, so what? But then I remember all of the mudslinging and bullcrap that occurrs when the US has a presidental election. And then I giggle. So, why not display it for the mirth and humor of everyone else? Because one party is actually ashamed of the entire situation, and is more than likely in the wrong. Here, I must giggle again - (Please note, if you find this statement disagreeable to you in anyway, oh well. I have yet to see King Key put up a notification stating that we can't say what we think.)

Number 3 - I had this affliction once, once count it you, and thankfully, a bad day and a wrangle with the boss does not outrank an apology and a continuated reading loyalty on my part.

Number 4 - Um... does this one actually exist? I mean seriously. I really haven't encountered anyone being THAT hateful towards another aspiring writer on here, ESPECIALLY going after their writing skill or content. How naughty and shameful of an IFian. I think the only person who should be allowed to slam someone like that is an actual successful author like hmmm... Dean Koontz, Stephen King, Clive Cussler... (Yes I know it's pretty much pulp fiction and I don't care. I love it, and eat it up!) And as far as I know, no one on IF has done that yet so whatever boot is up a behind, might be a good idea to... you know, quit sucking on the toe jam.

Number 5 - (Finally! Your last infection! A little cream and you should be good to go! [Please note: I hate doctors.:P]) Has anyone actually, seriously, made this emo-esque, disgusting statement? And who has really said 'To hell with the site entirely!' and not come crawling back? I did. Hmm, maybe we could market a 'Re-integration Month' to people that have been gone for a fair while and come back?

I would like to add a small suggestion to be tacked on with Hak's well-meant list for IF's self-improvement. I don't know of any others besides our illustrious mayor himself, but I am sure they're out there.. of stories that have been a long time in progress and the amount of chapters that are currently out make them intimidating to even begin to start reading. But I know that TB started a synopsis thread in Heavy Metal's forum. Which is what I'm proposing that authors with stories over ten chapters long actually begin to consider. It might help UP your readership if you have a friendly catch-up that ranks from the beginning of your story (include the DP and vote result please!) to the last five chapters that you've written. (Not quite as much work for the reader to do, but still enough to get the reader immersed in your setting and world as everyone else is.) There is a dual purpose for this too and it's a pretty simple one.
When I first joined IF, I was 19 and such a greedy cuss, jumping and reading everything I could get my hands on, and I spent... two evenings, days, whenever I wasn't working back then straight to get caught up on a few lenghty SGs. 4 years later? I wouldn't dream of attempting it again for the simple fact that... my eyes can't take that long staring at a screen at one time, AFTER spending most of my day at work staring at one. That's one of the reasons I also have a battle royale with my mother when she suggests one of those new-fangled e-reader contraptions instead of me fiending over books I've ordered and whinging when my bookshelf is full. Which is sadly is, again.

Also, building on Hak's 'banners' suggestion. I have made a button for IF, and placed it up as an affiliate on the site that I run (aforementioned RP place) but you have an untapped market for ADVERTISING on Proboards/InvisionFree forums. Come up with an ad, heck,maybe even a short video and chuck it on Youtube, DailyMotion, and/or Vimeo and you post up that Ad in the Guest Friendly Advertising section of the boards. It might not pan out to anything more than a few new members, but it's not paid for advertising so it's really too good an investment to pass up.

EDITS TO ADD: Random, OFF-TOPIC, idea here, but... IF Gear being available for Fables? Is that something that could be worked out or no?

And as a wrap-up, I know the above is 'blunt as a rusty knife' (a loving phrase coined by my beloved daddy XD) but it's the only way I know how to get out what I want to say pretty much. Just remember, it's all in IFian love for the City that has been my home for the past 4 and a half years.

[Muaddib]

Quote: And finally, and this has been the most recent and most deadly disease of all, the "Nobody'spayingattentiontomesoImightaswellnotpaytheattentionIwasn'tpayingtothemanyhowitus". In short, this really lethal killer has been taking one victim at a time and leaving us bereft of any activity whatsoever. The problem starts when someone posts a story. They don't get read because those authors that are here are just waiting for people to post on what they've posted and couldn't give a rats ass to support the other authors that have read (or not) their own stuff. So since nobody feels read and supported, nobody reads and supports anyone else.

Remember when I suggested that one needed to earn fables by reading others' SGs and participating to be able to afford to start one's own SG? At the time a lot of people suggested that that idea would make the City and old boys club. I still stand by that idea though.


I've also been contemplating the very idea of SGs. When the audience votes on a decision point, is it a good thing? Because you end up knowing what's coming in the next chapter. One of the best things about reading the best novels is being surprised at every turn. I sometimes feel that DPs take that away from the audience.


To be honest, I get really annoyed when I start a new SG, make suggestions etc. and then the author abandons that SG and starts an entirely new one. I don't bother reading that person's SGs anymore because they're proven flakes.

Also for some strange reason my favorites expired...even the active SG favorites.

Can we try something like twitter? Put a word limit on posts. I find it really hard to read lengthy chapters on screen. It hurts my eyes and makes my attention wander. The best example of a great, pithy SG is Lebrenth's Worms of the Wasteland. I'd be incredibly happy if all SGs followed that format.

[Vikas Muralidharan]

Its mostly RL thats been keeping me away. WORK WORK WORK.

DAMMIT!

But.. Yeah, I guess I'd get really active pretty soon.

I think the idea of an ad in RL seems pretty good. You know, a short video on YT. Seems like a good idea to take forward to me. I've anyway been asking people to join IF all around my town, here in India. Im pretty sure I can get a few members but we need to figure out a way to keep them ACTIVE.

Also, Quote: I am a mass offender of what T-Bird wrote, although most of it comes down to laziness. One of the big problems comes down to timing. If I do not manage to start reading an SG within the few few chapters it takes I don't even give it a try. There's no way of fixing that, I just need to stop being lazy.

^ That's one of my problems, but Im getting over it, I think :)

[Ingrothechundyer]

It seems that there are also a lot of users who browse quite a bit but may not comment as much which contributes to the site seeming dead.

Another thing with the city is the sheer volume of new posts makes it where keeping up takes a distant second to some of the other sites I follow.

http://www.google.com/reader/view/#stream/feed%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fnovel.oddsquad.org%2Ffeeds%2Fposts%2Fdefault - Posts per week:not enough to list

http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.princerevolution.org%2Ffeed%2F - Posts per week:1.4

http://www.google.com/reader/view/feed/http%3A%2F%2Ffeeds.feedburner.com%2FEvolvingExcellence - Posts per week:3.7

City of IF - Posts per week:95.9 :-o
Most of the stuff I follow does not send every comment on the feed but just the content (and contests and stuff). I sometimes loose new chapters on the IF RSS because of all the comments :oops:

I tend to go through phases of being caught up and not caught up. When I am caught up I tend to start catching up on things that are easy to catch up on before things that take a long time (like IF). If we could subscribe to individual storygames I would be more current on ones that I am currently following.

That said I have a major project at work that won't be wrapping up until next October so I won't be around very much this year or next year. If I see something interesting I may come comment but...

[kc9cra]

TBird and Half Empty Hero are both right. I'm like you guys, I like the story. I especially like the one who said they can't do fantacy. Yeah, me neither, but the fact that others think the same way surprises me, because I thought I was the only one. I like mostly modern setting stuff, horror, if it is interesting and original. I also like some scifi, but not Star Wars or anything like that. One of my favorite authors is Michael Chrichton may God rest his soul. When I go to sites like this one, the writing sites have a bunch of emo "I cut myself today b/c my mommy and daddy don't let me do whatever I want" stories, and the gaming sites are overran with fantacy fangames such as d&d and Lord of the Rings, stuf like that which has already been written, and the participants simply want to be in the game, they don't want to really create anything. I personally like to read others' sg's because I really do like this site, but many of them were started quite a while ago and have many chapters. I try to stick to new ones which don't come out that often. What I plan to do is, to summarize the progress of the game every so often to keep people up to speed. That way, they can read the last chapter or two as well as the summary and be up to speed on the story.

[Chinaren]

All of T's 'ituses' are valid, but none of them are new to IF, or even similar sites.

The trick is to keep writing, even if no one comments. My first story here (Narg the Nasty) had one person commenting sometimes (Shogun, where are you now) for about the first ten chapters or so.

Even so I kept going, and eventually others joined in.

Comment on others stories. If you do, they're more likely to comment on yours. Not always, but some. And keep doing it. Don't just do it once and then never again.

Finally don't start many stories and never finish them. I've stopped reading peopel's stories before because they write two chapters and then no more. (I can think of one person at the moment that does this).

All the rest is just fluff.

[Muaddib]

F5 or F4 or whatever to Chinaren's post.

[Emperor]

First, love the new avatar's Thunder and Lilith.

Second, yes, there are a great many things that keep this site from being really active again. It is also true that it is because of the very readers/writers of this site that cause this - and all their variant reasons why they do so (I'll admit I'm guilty of a few of those things on Thunder's list.)

Third, what can we really do? Before I answer this one, my answer does not disregard all the ideas before this post. (I liked the National Reading Month idea, if Nano can do it, why can't we.) The answer is simple, every single one of us who has a story up should post on any and all stories that other people write. It's that simple. Activity begets activity, case in point, anyone who posted on Symphony's Requiem always received some kind of reciprocal post - whether or not if it was as in depth as theirs. Of course this may sound oversimplified, but I think that is the solution.

Fourth, hi.