City of IF

BStheGreat · Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 262

Do you want me to look at him as a god or as the mortal man he was? I do not simply dismiss him because I don't agree with his teachings, some of them I follow. However I do not believe he was the son of god. Your attitude of "Embrace Jesus!" is exactly what is wrong with religion, and Christianity in specific. I don't walk around trying to convert Christians, I let them be and live my life. But Christians belief that for some reason everybody has to be Christian.

Chinaren · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:59 pm Post subject:

I've known many a christian, as well as other faiths. I don't think that everyone who is religious is bad at all. Quite contraire, some of the kindest people I've known have been religious.

I totally agree that religion, like a knife, is a tool. It can be used nicely, or not so nicely.

I started this thread in a bad mood, it had been a day where everywhere I turned people seemed to be trying to ram some god or other down my neck, but, again, I've nothing against religious people, as long as they keep their mumbo jumbo out of my face. ;)

Now, can we get back on topic please?

Here's a very bad taste joke, but it made me laugh...

BAD TASTE WARNING!!!

Priest is out walking in the middle of nowhere, when he comes across a small girl sobbing at the edge of a cliff. "What's the matter, little girl?" asks the priest.

"Well," says the girl between sobs, "my mother and father were in the car and it rolled over the edge of the cliff, and is now burning fiercely!"

The priest replies, undoing his fly, "It's just not your day, is it?"

Scheherazade · Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:04 pm Post subject:

BS, I wasn't trying to 'convert you.' I was trying to get you to discuss the topic rationally and with some idea of the points of the other side (I'm sorry if that offends you, but you don't appear willing to look at things from my point of view. Then again, I probably look equally inflexible to you :neut: ). Also, isn't telling people about Jesus rather rational, even admirable in small quantities? (not so much in large quantities, of course...). If you found an something awesome, wouldn't you like to share it with people too? ;)

Now, with respect to C'ren - thank you so much for being both clear and honest about your views - I will stop cluttering his thread. BS, if you don't mind I would like to ask you another question in a message. It's quite all right if you don't answer, but I'd be interested to know what you think.

Phang · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:02 am Post subject:

Chinaren wrote: keep their mumbo jumbo out of my face. ;)

*shmrk*

Mr. Chinaren, you are older than me. You should have known already that any idea seems like a good one when you're in a bad mood.

snow tiger · Joined: 07 Dec 2008 Posts: 56 Location: u wish

Scherzerade i absolutely agree with you.

Some people do use Christianity as an excuse to act immature.
Chinaren I don't know what you have against religion(especially christianity) but you might actually be surprised by how logical it is.
Don't forget that some religious books were written thousands of years ago and probably written in a way easier for those living then to understand but perhaps in a more different way from that which modern day people are used to thinking.
Yea, we know you think it's all a bunch of crap but could you please, please refrain from insulting religiousness?
Afterall, you wouldn't like it if somebody insulted your way of thinking and your way of life.
Oh, and even if i'm a christain, i can read and go where i want, when i want so please don't tell me what to do.

BStheGreat · Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 262

Snow tiger, I hate to point out the obvious but you knowingly read a thread which clearly stated it was meant for atheists. We are are not making fun of your religion, simply religion in general. You are correct that you can read and go where you want whenever you want (depending on what country you are in of course) but so can we. We also are allowed to write what we want.

Chinaren said this thread wasn't meant for bashing other people, but when you put yourself in the situation it is bound to happen. That being said, I apologize if I have offended anyone. I tend to be all fire and brimstone when I debate against someone.

HiddenHeartsCry · Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 33 Location: It's bloody here

BStheGreat wrote: But Christians belief that for some reason everybody has to be Christian.

Exactly.

HiddenHeartsCry · Joined: 31 Dec 2008 Posts: 33 Location: It's bloody here

Chinaren wrote:

BAD TASTE WARNING!!!

Priest is out walking in the middle of nowhere, when he comes across a small girl sobbing at the edge of a cliff. "What's the matter, little girl?" asks the priest.

"Well," says the girl between sobs, "my mother and father were in the car and it rolled over the edge of the cliff, and is now burning fiercely!"

The priest replies, undoing his fly, "It's just not your day, is it?"

:rofl: I believe that was just what I need this morning XD

Phang · Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:45 am Post subject:

HiddenHeartsCry wrote: BStheGreat wrote: But Christians belief that for some reason everybody has to be Christian.

Exactly.

Practically every religion does that nowadays. Makes sense.

BStheGreat · Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 262

Not they Jews.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:17 am Post subject:

Definitions of atheists on the Web:

Atheism is the position that deities do not exist, or the rejection of theism. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheists

atheism - the doctrine or belief that there is no God
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

atheist - someone who denies the existence of god
atheist - related to or characterized by or given to atheism; "atheist leanings"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

atheistic - rejecting any belief in gods
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Atheist are a technical death metal band from Florida, founded in 1984, whose music combined metal riffs with subtle latin music arrangements and ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist_(band)

The Atheist is written by Irish born playwright, Ronan Noone. His previous plays include The Lepers of Baile Baiste (Critics Pick, Boston Globe ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atheist_(play)

The Atheist is a horror comic book originally released in April 2005 and is published by Image Comics. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Atheist_(comics)

atheist - A person who does not believe that deities exist; one who lacks belief in gods; A person who believes that no deities exist; one who denies the ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/atheist

An Atheist is a member of the religion that teaches that God does not exist; moreover and Atheist is someone who is convinced that God does not exist.
www.creationkid.org/dictionary.html

don’t believe in the existence of god or gods. More recently, atheists have argued that atheism only denotes a lack of theistic belief, rather than the active denial or claims of certainty it is often associated with.
www.sexed-up-atheists.com/definitions.html

atheism - Atheists In modern times, those who do not accept the monotheistic Christian God or any god. It formerly signified those who did not believe in the accepted divinity or divinities of the State or populace.
www.theosociety.org/pasadena/etgloss/ass-atm.htm

atheism - A belief that there are no gods. Greek "a-theos": without-god. [see the 'Atheism' page for complete information]
www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm

Humanism Atheism & Secularism (www.Vexen.co.uk)
www.dpjs.co.uk/dictionary.html

atheist - As used by most self-claimed atheists in means lack of belief in an organized religion. In the dictionary, an atheist is someone who do not believe in a God. ...
stobie.home.sprynet.com/work/oxymorons.htm

Chinaren · Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:42 pm Post subject:

Quote: An Atheist is a member of the religion that teaches that God does not exist; moreover and Atheist is someone who is convinced that God does not exist. '

Gah, this annoys me a lot. Atheism is the lack of religion. It isn't a religion. :-x

BStheGreat · Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 262

Chinaren wrote:
‘And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence.’ - Bertrand Russell

Out of curiosity has anyone read 'Why I Am Not A Christian' by Bertrand Russell. I recommend it, it brings of quite a few good points. You can read it for free Here

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:41 pm Post subject:

To tell you the truth c'ren there are some young children who believe atheitism is a religion, religion has no meaning to them, even if they make their beliefs of no God at all. but I do believe there are some who believe it isn't a religion that they just believe there is no holy ghost of any kind or the angels. Atheits know too much about the bible to question it to a priest, instead they use the logic of their brain and fight for their own right or belief against what is to say in the christain world, by answering the questions themselves.

Phang · Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:17 am Post subject:

Hot diggity that's a lorra lorra definitions. Sod this, you can do whatever you like here, the title of 'atheist thread' couldn't become artifact if it tried.

Chinaren · Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:47 am Post subject:

Quote: some young children who believe atheitism is a religion,

Yeah well, young kids know sod all.

and...
Quote: couldn't become artifact if it tried.

:confused:

Phang · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:06 am Post subject:

Chinaren wrote: Quote: couldn't become artifact if it tried.

:confused:

Trap sprung! Some may declare it Bonking Time, but I, I know it to be Troping Time.

...It's not Shittin' Time either.

In general, it refers to a name or title whose meaning has been kinda lost due to change.

Mephistopheles · Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:09 pm Post subject:

Interesting thread that has sprung up in my absence. I have read a good bit of the bible. Both testaments. I have attended some church services recently. Do I believe that there is a god that loves us all as his children? I am not sure. It is very possible. It is also entirely impossible. Man can explain a lot of the mysteries within the universe, and if he does not destroy himself, perhaps with time he can explain away all that christians rely upon god to explain. I think that those individuals who require divine guidance are best suited to be christians and have a god that scares them into being good. Those who have a conscious and are able to think for themselves don't need god. Let the sheep follow their shepherd if they need. I am of the thought that you do what you need to be happy in this shit existence. If God brings you happiness, more power to him. If you can find happiness in yourself, why screw with a good thing.

Crunchyfrog · Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 3998

Can agnostics post here? :-D

Phang · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:35 am Post subject:

Crunchyfrog wrote: Can agnostics post here? :-D

Sure, why not. I mean, I've been hanging around accosting people at the virtual doorway so I don't see why anyone should be unallowed.

Crunchyfrog · Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 3998

Great! I'll just go and sit on that fence over there, then. Or how about that other one on the other side?

Hmm. Just can't decide...

Chinaren · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:28 am Post subject:

Crunchyfrog wrote: Great! I'll just go and sit on that fence over there, then. Or how about that other one on the other side?

Hmm. Just can't decide...

:lol:

Bloody Agos! ;)

Fats_Masterson · Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:13 pm Post subject:

Not surewhat this says about what but, in The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes suggests that we as humans didn't develop into fully conscious creature until well after we began creating communities and societies. We were all essentially schizophrenic and that the different voices that were actually parts of our brains trying to talk to each other.

Now being not all that imaginative of a species most of these different voices shared characteristics with each other and when we began communicating with each other we noticed these similarities and grouped them as "supernatural" deities. As conscious thought became an evolutionary advantage we lost these "Gods" yet retained their stories through the oral tradition. Religion was a way of passing these stories and the knowledge that they contained, learned through experience.

Now what I find extrodinarily funny is that Religion was, at the beginning, a tool to teach and organize societies. It became an institution and eventually someone found a better way to explain the world, science. And now we have the grand church of reason. The laws of science are unbreakable, irrefutable and the ultimate rules of creation. Except that to really use the science we have, we have to have faith in an ideal we know is fundamentally wrong. (Thank you quantum physics)

Whew... That was quite a rant. Sorry guys. Like I said earlier not exactly sure what this says about anything, but I like to think about it to keep everything in persepctive.

BStheGreat · Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 262

Fats_Masterson wrote: The laws of science are unbreakable, irrefutable and the ultimate rules of creation.

This isn't true at all. There are no definites in this world, something is only right as long as it is not proven wrong, and only wrong until it is proven right. Some things may seem irrefutable, but it is simply because an opportunity has not yet arisen to refute it.

The White Blacksmith · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 2629

BStheGreat wrote: Fats_Masterson wrote: The laws of science are unbreakable, irrefutable and the ultimate rules of creation.

This isn't true at all. There are no definites in this world, something is only right as long as it is not proven wrong, and only wrong until it is proven right. Some things may seem irrefutable, but it is simply because an opportunity has not yet arisen to refute it.

Yeah. The Earth was flat until we started sailing around it. Gravity pulled towards ONLY the centre of the earth until it was realised that someone on the side of Everest was pulled slightly towards Everest as well.

Scientific rules are only rules until they are disproven. If someone wearing rollerskates pushed on a wall and found they did not slide back, we'd have to completely revise our ideas on forces - we couldn't just call it an anomaly and ignore it. If we ignored things because they didn't fit with what we thought should happen then we'd never make any progress and experiments would be pointless.

sheik · Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Posts: 27 Location: On the Fence

Oh my god. It, makes sense. I came here with the intent of getting a good laugh at the warped attributes of their ideas but I'll be da_ned if they don't make sense! 18 years of being a Bible beating charlatan, a lifetime of being a mindless sheep; I didn't think, never questioned, just blindy followed through and off all the places in the world. To have opposition so bluntly thrust forward in simple laymen speak, with truth seeping through every pore of that first post. I can't...honestly. How the hell did I not see the folly behind it all?! ...I guess it came from being preached by all the ones I trusted and loved for my entire life. Sheesh. Well at least now I can safely safe I'm off the fence; for better or for worse.
Thanks Chinaren.

Chinaren · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:26 am Post subject:

No need for thanks Shake. Your salvation is reward enough for me.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:57 am Post subject:

Sorry I understood nothing of this. All I understood was that you talked about your people and then off the fence for better or for worse. And saving from salvation. I was like what? I cant understand big use of words, please spell it out then for those who believe their own things. I understand you say we can worship anyone we want to but aslong as it doesn't influince you.

The White Blacksmith · Joined: 02 Apr 2006 Posts: 2629

It seems Sheik has read the thread, listened to the arguments and decided to become an atheist when he has been a Christian all of his life.

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 4:45 am Post subject:

I thought that might happen! Thanks c'ren I hope your happy, I thought you also didn't want to change others point of view. I had thoughts about being an athiets, but I'm not going to become one even if I wonder how it would be. Shiek do what you think is right, but don't try to leave your believfs behind, you can still believe there is a god out there and marry through christain ways, but you cans still be an athiest. Just don't leave yourself empty and sad. Please I don't want to see anyone with a empty space in their heart, try think things through before you make that choice.

Phang · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:48 am Post subject:

Some stunning insight tells me Sheik is, in fact, taking the piss.

I'm not sure why I feel this way. Perhaps it's his/her exagerration. The fact that I couldn't see anyone learning anything from those demotivationals and contextless quotes if they were hit with a brick. Or maybe I just hope you're not humouring him/her because I hate that.

Also, Chri there's something...off about your posting which gives me a bad taste. Lack of experience means I can't quite place it, but...please, don't talk like these atheists are somehow lacking and in need of religion. I'll bet it's pissing Chin off! :lol:

Guest · Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2009 9:09 am Post subject:

Uh... Oh sorry about that then. All I was saying is that what sounds to me is that something sounds different in everyone posting now than earlier, it just makes me think about a space missing somewhere. Don't know why. Forgive my ramblings, I'm not a smart girl, but I can see when someone is kidding and not kidding, unless sheek was only sarcastic. But sacrasm isn't in my vocabulary becuase I don't use it. :) I'm just "old" Phang that is why I sounds so weird. plus My sister translates usually what I say into better sentances, because I'm afrilish. XD

Chinaren · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:28 am Post subject:

Phang wrote: Some stunning insight
I'll bet it's pissing Chin off! :lol:

Nah, it's alright Phango. I'm used to listening, or rather ignoring, religious gibberings.

No offense there Crady.

Though, once again, I did say at the beginning of this thread it was for Atheists, so by coming in here (which you're free to do of course) then you tacitly agree to be offended by Atheist views, whcih are, as Sheik has recently admitted, the One True Way.

Crady wrote: I thought you also didn't want to change others point of view

Not at all, I just said I don't try to do such. I'm quite happy if someone sheds the trap of religion and steps into the light.

Not-god be praised! :D ~Waves arms about~

Guest · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:01 am Post subject:

That is crued of you... :/ I think you shouldn't be happy about what you actaully make the people think in this thread, just my point of view.

Scheherazade · Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:00 am Post subject:

Christalnightshade wrote: I think you shouldn't be happy about what you actaully make the people think in this thread
wait, what? So you'll allow him to have a whole thread of his own, just so long as he doesn't actually think it matters? No offense, but your point of view seems... sort of silly, as I understand it. Could you perhaps explain what you meant?

sheik · Joined: 25 Dec 2008 Posts: 27 Location: On the Fence

I feel the need to clarify for Shade as she was kind enough to post on my few writings. I have been debating about my beliefs for awhile, and am still truly looking for my own reasons for beliefing in that omnipotent force. Now, obviously I can't just shake something like that off in a day. I find myself praying at night still, just that God is no longer being identified as Christ. It's strange to me, maybe with so more time spent living alone, in the Real world, I will find the answers. Who knows, maybe Atheism is truly the answer? All I know, is that with my scant knowledge of life, I am not ready to make that decision.....yet.

Chinaren · Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:00 pm Post subject:

Now one thing I do believe is that people shouldn't believe in any one system until they're at least 25 years old, by which time they should have experienced at least a little bit of life.

Crunchyfrog · Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 3998

.... unless of course it is the Flying Spaghetti Monster :lol:

Guest · Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:20 am Post subject:

What I meant by that is not being silly, if only you understand what I meant. By that I meant that when c'ren was saying halaluia and amen to him thinking of becoming one, that it was his thread that made him think about it, doubt himself, as I've doubt myself when I was asked questions that I've never answered in my entire life. As I have also thought about "how would it be to be one." Eventaully I just thought that it was not the answer to all the living things of life.

Zeke · Joined: 31 Jul 2009 Posts: 56

I love a discussion about religion or anti-religion. But I have to say that there were always a few of my major objections to Christianity which could be easily fixed with a few little tweaks ...

[begin rant]

1. There are no miracles. A "miracle" is just unexplained natural phenomena by definition. If God made the world, he doesn't need to break the rules. He makes the rules.

2. Prayer can make you feel good, but it doesn't accomplish miracles. God is not a genie. You can't make wishes.

3. The bible is not an Oujii board. Random passages from the Bible taken out of context make no more sense than any other book ... which leads me to number four ...

4. The bible may have been inspired by God, but it was written by humans. Moreover, the books of the bible were chosen by humans ... not necessarily divinely inspired humans at that.

5. The book of Revelations is garbage. Eschatology can be boiled down to this: your world ends when you die. The early church wasn't comfortable with the lack of closure on the bible so they added the ravings of this lunatic that probably never met Jesus.

Speaking of people that never met Jesus ...

6. Paul of Tarsus is not Jesus, as many Christian's seem to think. IMHO, Paul was kind of a jerk by modern standards. His letters to the church were suggestions, not Gospel (literally or figuratively). He can take that whole "Wives, submit to your husbands..." and shove it up his ****. As far as I'm concerned, a good Christian could toss out everything before and after the four Gospels.

When asked which is the greatest commandment, Jesus replied,

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matt22:37-40)

Sorry, Folks. Christianity doesn't mean you never have to make a decision again. That's what the U.S. Marine Corps is for. Semper Fi.

[/end rant]