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Phang
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 Posted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Ah, c'est bon.
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Exmortis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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{...Atheists... I never expected to meet......}
Well met; perhaps somebody here can assist me. I require information on this site, what I can do here and where I can start.
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Exmortis
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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It's funny...
How fragile society is as a whole, however, a man who stands alone is almost bulletproof...
...Do you know why this is....?
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LolaTally
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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Haha, loving this thread.
C'ren, any chance of more demotivational posters?
And btw, I'm a Wiccan with a sense of humor, so please, religion bash. I'm loving it! There's always one Christian who feels they have to refute everything said. 
And here's one for all of you -
Religion is for those who fear hell. Spirituality is for those who've been there.
Spiritualists, unite!
Dyslexics, untie!
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:31 am Post subject: |
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Ha! Good one Lolly!
I do have some more posters, but I seem to have misplaced them. Maybe at work.
And welcome to IF. 
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:04 am Post subject: |
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| LolaTally wrote: | Spiritualists, unite!
Dyslexics, untie! |
I have some quotes in a bewk. I'll pick some out later.
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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So happens that my first post after a looong break will be here. Not gonna be a long post since the thread hasn't been updated in a long time as I see, so here are my 5 cents.
I'm an atheist and proud of it. That doesn't mean I don't believe in a superior... something that's out there, in a plane inaccessible to us, but that it is not an unique supreme conscience blah, blah, blah... So it's not God, Jehovah, Allah or whatever deity most people are indoctrinated with. How can I believe in a perfect entity that doesn't make its only creation perfect? And if it is a reflection of itself, that means it is also not perfect.
Anyway, here's something for all religious people to think about.
And here are my favorite passages from Umberto Eco's "The Name of the Rose":
Jorge de Burgos: Laughter is a devilish wind which deforms, uh, the lineaments of the face and makes men look like monkeys.
William of Baskerville: Monkeys do not laugh. Laughter is particular to men.
Jorge de Burgos: As is sin. Christ never laughed.
William of Baskerville: Can we be so sure?
Jorge de Burgos: There is nothing in the Scriptures to say that he did.
William of Baskerville: And there's nothing in the Scriptures to say that he did not. Why, even the saints have been known to employ comedy, to ridicule the enemies of the Faith. For example, when the pagans plunged St. Maurice into the boiling water, he complained that his bath was too cold. The Sultan put his hand in... scalded himself.
William of Baskerville: But what is so alarming about laughter?
Jorge de Burgos: Laughter kills fear, and without fear there can be no faith, because without fear of the Devil there is no more need of God.
William of Baskerville: But you will not eliminate laughter by eliminating that book.
Jorge de Burgos: No, to be sure, laughter will remain the common man's recreation. But what will happen if, because of this book, learned men were to pronounce it admissible to laugh at everything? Can we laugh at God? The world would relapse into chaos! Therefore, I seal that which was not to be said.
William of Baskerville: How many more rooms? Ah! How many more books? No one should be forbidden to consult these books freely.
Adso of Melk: Perhaps they are thought to be too precious, too fragile.
William of Baskerville: No, it's not that, Adso. It's because they often contain a wisdom that is different from ours and ideas that could encourage us to doubt the infallibility of the word of God... And doubt, Adso, is the enemy of faith.
My advice? Read the Bible, Koran or whatever books your religion has, in a matter fit for them. As simple literature. And stop believing in God, Jehovah or Allah not because I or anyone else tells you to, but because you need to start thinking for yourselves and not for whoever indoctrinated you with this nonsense.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting statements there Guyron. Welcome to IF! I know my own tale will be exploring some of these paradoxes you've pointed out... how interesting that you bring these up.
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 CHAPTER 25: Near-Light Speed (NEW CHAPTER! (12/4/2011))
Zephyrrr! And...  
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| God hates me because I don't believe in him.
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DeadManWalking
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Nice post Guy. But I have to say, the question in the motivational poster has been given answers before. (Not that i did not say it was answered.)
The answer most theologians give is that evil is now an intrinsic part of humanity, and that to remove it would change humanity into something it is not. Humanity has chosen to embrace evil (Main example is the Fall, with the Fruit, etc.) and God gives us the freedom to choose. (This doesn't work with Calvinism at all though.)
Second answer is kinda similar. God needs us to make our own mistakes. Like a parent with their child, they need to allow the child to stumble along and learn some things for themselves. Perhaps God learned from the Fall that simply forbidding someone something wouldn't prevent them from taking it.
Again those both have holes, but hey, what religion doesn't?
(Side Note: I'm an agnostic myself, but I went to a Catholic school for several years. You pick things up there.)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'm no atheist, nor do I hold any other religion. Such things are not important to me, as I do not know, and perceivably never will know. However I do have a profound dislike for any of the 3 mainline religions (Christianity, Islam, and Judaism) as they have brought few benefits and many evils to the world. I am extremely fascinated on why people are so keen on believing in 'God' and so quick to dismiss the Greek Gods, or any of the other polytheistic religions. These were born far earlier and survived through rituals and exciting tales that I am less willing to sleep through.
Yet the majority of mankind dismisses all this, for a book written by a man. We laugh at the flawed Gods, who share far more traits with humanity than the one God we were supposedly based on. If we are truly the image of God, what than is that saying about him? We make excuses, and blame ourselves for things an omnipotent being could surely have foreseen.
For a being who knows and sees all, God is not very impressive. Sure, the evils of man can not, and should not be blamed on a bearded man in the sky, but how naive would he have to be to not know what we would become?
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Guyron
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| DeadManWalking wrote: | Nice post Guy. But I have to say, the question in the motivational poster has been given answers before. (Not that i did not say it was answered.)
The answer most theologians give is that evil is now an intrinsic part of humanity, and that to remove it would change humanity into something it is not. Humanity has chosen to embrace evil (Main example is the Fall, with the Fruit, etc.) and God gives us the freedom to choose. (This doesn't work with Calvinism at all though.)
Second answer is kinda similar. God needs us to make our own mistakes. Like a parent with their child, they need to allow the child to stumble along and learn some things for themselves. Perhaps God learned from the Fall that simply forbidding someone something wouldn't prevent them from taking it.
Again those both have holes, but hey, what religion doesn't?
(Side Note: I'm an agnostic myself, but I went to a Catholic school for several years. You pick things up there.) |
Heck, I took seven (yep that's 7) years of my life to theology, so I'm well accustomed with the doctrine.
I've always liked the part with "God left us free will". Nonsense. What would have happened if Good would've been chosen? "And they all lived happily ever after in a land of milk rivers and ever flowing nectar from the clouds, until someone got bored and invented the club. And from that to nuclear war there was just a step." Would've been much more interesting than a woman being tricked into eating a fruit, by a demon (Asmodeus) disguised as a snake.
Religions shouldn't have holes, according to their followers, right? You can't follow a religion if you're convinced it's flawed. If you know it's not perfect, and you still follow it, then it's merely doctrine reflex. Like communism. A bad idea, badly applied.
You'll see a lot of stuff in the novel I'm gonna start, and I'm sure those will be the subject of an intense discussion and/or critique..
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Thunderbird
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I would have discounted the Bible entirely if not for two observations:
1) The prophecies actually seem to be coming true, much as many other religions of the worlds' prophecies are appearing to manifest as well.
and
2) I have uncovered historical facts that seem to make the Bible make some sense, appears to clarify so many of its contradictions, and re-slant the whole story to become something far more... profound.
That said, such clarifications have also shattered a great many of the tenants that the churchs' faiths rely upon. Heh heh.
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Zephyrrr! And...
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Guyron
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Thunderbird wrote: | I would have discounted the Bible entirely if not for two observations:
1) The prophecies actually seem to be coming true, much as many other religions of the worlds' prophecies are appearing to manifest as well.
and
2) I have uncovered historical facts that seem to make the Bible make some sense, appears to clarify so many of its contradictions, and re-slant the whole story to become something far more... profound.
That said, such clarifications have also shattered a great many of the tenants that the churchs' faiths rely upon. Heh heh. |
1) Prophecies are ambiguous. Of course something WILL happen it all depends on where and how fast. And how accurate the prophet is. Even Nostradamus predicted a lot of events and he was follower of no religion.
2) The are also a lot of newly discovered evidences that actually present the Bible as a careful selection of gospels which they found suited for... let's not say control of the masses, but more like "guiding" the world in certain directions.
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Thunderbird
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| Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Guyron wrote: |
1) Prophecies are ambiguous. Of course something WILL happen it all depends on where and how fast. And how accurate the prophet is. Even Nostradamus predicted a lot of events and he was follower of no religion. |
True, but some of the sequences that seem to be taking place in our modern era are all too eerily what has been predicted, some of which even being predictions that would have been unfathomable at the time they were made. Things like the unification of Europe, increased earthquake activities, the birth of the White Buffalo and so many more, all taking place in our one timeframe. It is not out of the question that according to the laws of chance and likelihoods (chaos theory) what we're experiencing could be happenstance. But the evidence is mounting every year, so far as I've seen. (Let's not discount that the Bible clearly portrays how many will turn from the faith in the latter days and even suggests that it is on the basis of learning and rationale that they do so.)
Now, too, all that said, a man once asked me a question that has been long fun to chew on: If people weren't out there MAKING the prophecies come true, how would they come true?
| Quote: | | 2) The are also a lot of newly discovered evidences that actually present the Bible as a careful selection of gospels which they found suited for... let's not say control of the masses, but more like "guiding" the world in certain directions. |
I couldn't possibly agree with you more. The Bible is likely little more than a compilation of a great many spiritual and religious texts, thrown together in a well thought out method to create a tool by which the powers that be can manipulate society. I even find that many of the original terms used in the first text have been changed and redefined so as to fit the model that the creators of the religion would see fit.
Let me make it clear that primarily, the Bible is, to me, a valid resource for determining the plan that someone or something has for us. I highly doubt it covers the whole picture and in fact, is likely a masterpiece made as much to cover UP the whole picture. The greatest lies are the ones with the strongest elements of truth woven in.
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Zephyrrr! And...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:26 am Post subject: |
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The books of the bible were carefully selected from a much larger catalogue of potential documents. Is it at all suprising that the "prophecies" of the bible were occasionally correct? Talk about making prophecies come true.
Not to mention the liberal interpretation of certain things Jesus was alleged to have said. Take for example, when Jesus supposedly said "Destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it up." Was he aware of the literal destruction of the temple around 70 AD? If so, did he intend to literally raise it up? If so, his prophecy could be seen as false.
The modern interpretation is that he was referring to his own resurrection after three days ... but who can say whether the disciples of Jesus took a little creative license with the three days (what's three days, more or less, right?)
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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The bible is a storybook* and nothing more. You may as well read the future using Grimm's fairy tales, which has just as much validity and is more modern. The fact that people read things into it is a testament to the willingness and gullibility of people more than anything else.
Let's look into this some more:
There are three parts to the whole issue. Accuracy of original text, statistical probability, and the willingness of people who 'want to believe'.
Part 1. Accuracy. Or lack thereof.
The language the prediction was written in was inevitably some ancient kind, with references to life in the local lingo and with local frames of reference. Also bear in mind these people with mostly primitive savages that thought the world was flat and so forth.
So we have an ancient text, written by ignorant barbarians in a strange lingo with cultural references for the time. If that's not bad enough, then there's the translations.
We have enough trouble determining what Shakespeare meant in his plays, and he was alive only a few hundred years ago, when we have reasonable reference documents.
How accurate do you think scribblings by uneducated rednecks that have been translated fifty times over in the course of several thousand years are?
My wife does translations now, and as someone who's done professional proof reading, I can tell you that these current efforts are bad enough. I shudder to think how 'accurate' the bible is to its original text.
So we have an ancient text, written by ignorant savages in a strange lingo with cultural references to the time badly mistranslated over several thousand years. NOW people read this twaddle and 'interpret' the writing as a prediction.
I'm really going to trust the accuracy of that.
Then there's pure statistics...
Ian M Banks, in one of his excellent books, said: Throw a billion coins up in the air repeatedly, and some are going to keep coming down heads for a long time.
For example: I think there was something about 'twin towers falling in flames' in some old bunkum that people pounced on when Sep 11th happened. Prediction? Well, sure, 'cos it's bound to happen sometime.
I can predict a great catastrophe in the next ten years, and I'll wager that one happens somehow. Does that make me a prophet? Well, yes it does. But every other prediction is false!!
I'm not even go into the millions of predictions made that are "wrong" and are never mentioned.
Finally there's the 'interpretation' made by the people that 'want' to believe.
I'm not superstitions, but when an omen crosses my path that brings good or favorable auspices, I take note of it! That's 'cos I want to believe it will happen.
There are a lot of people out there reading 'facts' into any little thing. You only have to look up 'conspiracy theories' to see for yourself.
So when people 'interpret' some ancient text, they are bound to find something that 'fits' it if they look around. Then they can go crowing on about how the prophecy has come true. It's the same sort of technique used by soothsayers and those who 'speak to the dead'.
These points cover Nostrapoofus and any other so call fortune teller as well as the storybook referred to as the bible.
That's all I have to say on this. See you after 2012.
*One that wouldn't even make it to SGotM IMO.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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What's your beef with religion?
So, some years ago when I "converted" to atheism, I had some specific problems with Christianity that I was addressing. For one, I felt that I was depending on a miracle or divine intervention to "fix" my life for me.
In retrospect, I realize that this new perspective could certainly be couched in Christian terminology--although I believe that many Christian's would not agree with my sentiment. So:
The Bible is not an Ouji board. Even if you believe in the divine, literal truth of the bible, you can't pick random verses out of context and expect them to make any sense in your modern life.
"God provides" us with the resources to solve our problems. God created nature and has no need to circumvent nature--in other words, the existence of a "miracle" is a Deus ex Machina (if you'll enjoy the pun) from the divine author and would actually contradict the idea of an omnipotent god. The only kind of change we can expect from prayer is a change of attitude.
In fact, most of my Christian leaders did not agree with my above sentiments. Many felt that the bible was inerrant even in isolated verses and that context did not negate or support specific verses. Many also seemed to think of prayer as some kind of miracle making machine and not the meditative exercise that I believe it to be. Unwittingly, the inflexibility of certain leaders actually turned me into an atheist!
When I found a church that was more forgiving of different beliefs, I found myself accepting the possibility of God and an afterlife. At the very least, I found that I could benefit from the idea of redemption. If you take responsibility for your own life, you need to accept that you've made errors in judgment that have screwed up you life in some way. The idea of forgiveness can extend into your ego and provide some measure of acceptance and help you make peace with your life.
I wouldn't call myself a Christian now, and probably not even a deist. However, I think that perhaps I can call myself an agnostic. Maybe.
So, if you read this far, perhaps you will think of your own answer. Why are you an atheist? What were your reasons?
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Reiso
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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I go back and forth on the issue of religion. Like many other things in my life, I am chronically undecided. I would probably most accurately be described as an agnostic; one open to belief, but still unconvinced (if I have that right). But even in all my indecision, there are a couple of things that have always been consistently fixed in my mind.
First, there is the popular assertion that most gods were invented to explain away natural phenomenon that we were unable to understand at the time. Thor for thunder, etc. It seems impossible to both believe that many non-mainstream religions are easily explained away in this manner, yet the big ones are somehow exempt. Sorry. Not buying it. So if it's made up, then isn't that the opposite of true?
Second, there is the amount of contradictions even within one faith. I will not list these in detail, because I do not wish to draw fire from others by being specific. Even the faithful have admitted to me that mainstream religion requires enough faith to look away from its inconsistencies. I both lack that faith and know myself well enough to know that barring certain events coming to pass which I doubt will, that I am incapable of that level of faith.
Thirdly, and most importantly for me, is the habit I have observed among many of the faithful. Whenever something good happens in their lives, the first thing they do is thank God. If it's bad, they blame him. This is disheartening to me, because in a bad situation, they use God to shield themselves from their own responsibility, and in a good situation, they don't give themselves credit for their own part. What are we really teaching people when we allow them to make God both their scapegoat and their champion? Do we not have any sense of personal accountability anymore?
So yeah, those are my religious quandaries. I'm not saying God doesn't exist. I'm not even saying I'm right. This is just my opinion. I just don't think any current organized religion has got it right. And if none of them have gotten it right by now, then how can we be sure there's anything to be right about?
Eh.
_________________
Sector 17 -- Rebuilding... ... ...
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, "Is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter--bitter," he answered;
"But I like it
Because it is bitter
And because it is my heart." -- Stephen Crane
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Mmm, perhaps I can ask the mod of this forum to split this debate off from the main thread please? Debate isn't on topic for this thread.
That said...
| Zekle wrote: | | What's your beef with religion? |
Hahaa! Where do I start?
I'll just give my main two beefs:
I often get repulsed by someone trying to thrust their primitive and often absurd beliefs on me.
If people actually did something useful instead of praying and the other hooey that comes with it, the human race would probably have colonized the solar system by now. The amount of time and effort wasted on (all) religions is frankly staggering.
| Zink wrote: |
So, if you read this far, perhaps you will think of your own answer. Why are you an atheist? What were your reasons? |
I don't need a reason to be an Athiest, it's the natural state of things. I should ask you why you feel the need to be a religious person.
However, I'm not asking, 'cos I don't care that much.
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Smee
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:39 am Post subject: |
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I don't want a city full of separate threads about religion - it's a divisive subject. But please re-read Chinaren's opening post in this thread before replying and make sure you're on topic.
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Tikanni Corazon
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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I have been both Atheist and Christian, and now I am neither. When I was Atheist, I felt that I needed answers that only religion could give. So I moved on to Christianity. And for a while I was satisfied with it. But I hadn't really read the Bible properly, only heard what the vicar had to say. Then some Jehovahs Witnesses came a knockin' on the door one day, and, stupidly, they persuaded me to read the Bible myself. And all that time I was thinking that the message sent out from this book was one that preached peace and love towards your fellow man/woman.
But I find it hard to trust a god who commands 'Thou shalt not kill', then permitts it in other parts of the Bible. No, no, no, no, no!
So, I told Christianity to shove it, and now I just believe in my own private beliefs (the details of which I will not bore you all with). It does not centre around a religion, but it's what I believe, and that's all that matters.
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.... there is no religion without love, and people may talk as much as they like about their religion, but if it does not teach them to be good and kind to man and beast, it is all a sham....
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Last edited by Tikanni Corazon on Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Smee
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:48 am Post subject: |
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To shift the focus to a more recent 'religion' to rear it's ugly head.
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Zeke
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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I'm sorry if I got off-topic, folks. I wasn't intending to start a debate. I just thought, you know, everyone seems to have reasons for deciding to follow certain beliefs. Atheism is no exception.
That sort of probing can get a little personal, though. 
If you google "atheist bumper stickers" there are few gems, I see. My favorites have got to be "Real men don't have imaginary friends." and "There is no God, so I guess nobody loves you."
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Kalanna Rai
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| Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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I'm agnostic.
I find both the atheists and the fundamentalists funny.
Atheists because they don't keep the option open. Fundamentalists because they believe it HAS to be there.
All I believe is that there might be someone(s) or something(s) out there and I'm not going to piss them off by telling them they're fake. At the same time I'm not going to believe what anyone else says about them because, and pardon my blunt foul language, how the fuck do they know?
That is all I have to say about that. Goodnight.
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| Kalanna Rai wrote: | I'm agnostic.
Atheists because they don't keep the option open. |
Agnostic = basically someone who's too chicken to make their mind up.
I actually was moved enough to write a religious story: Hehe.
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Chinaren wrote: | | Agnostic = basically someone who's too chicken to make their mind up. |
Alternatively, someone who believes that such things are entirely unknowable. This can (rarely, though) be combined with religious belief - a sort of 'We'll never know, but I believe in it anyway'.
Considering you have apparently just ignored Kalanna's reasoning to imply she is a chicken, you're starting to play up to a stereotype yourself, Chin.
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Chinaren
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| Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Pha wrote: | | Chinaren wrote: | | Agnostic = basically someone who's too chicken to make their mind up. |
Alternatively, someone who believes that such things are entirely unknowable. This can (rarely, though) be combined with religious belief - a sort of 'We'll never know, but I believe in it anyway'. |
Nah, I stand by my statement. It is the Atheist thread after all. Not the "can't make up my mind" thread. I have enough trouble with CMUMM people who stand in the line in front of me at McDonalds and um and er, even though they've had plenty of time to decide on something as they've been in the line for the past five minutes.  McDonald agnostics! 
| ng wrote: |
Considering you have apparently just ignored Kalanna's reasoning to imply she is a chicken, you're starting to play up to a stereotype yourself, Chin. |
I have a stereotype? Wow, that's awesome. Although if it's a stereotype of myself, then surely that would be because it's me?? Anyway, 
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of someone who can't make up their mind, I'd consider myself an agnostic.
Obviously, the objective evidence for the existence of a god is pretty non-existant--not that it would matter. Some people can't even "believe" in evolution, despite nearly universal scientific consensus and overwhelming scientific evidence. So obviously scientific credibility is not enough for some people.
But on the other hand, it is logically impossible to prove that an omnipotent God DOESN'T exist. If God exists, he ain't no genie, that's for sure. And he's not very nice, to put it delicately.
For me, I think it is more a cultural thing. I can't escape the pressures of the Christian culture. The prejudice against atheism in the U.S. is overwhelming. I could imagine a Muslim president before a public atheist.
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Chinaren wrote: | | Pha wrote: | | Chinaren wrote: | | Agnostic = basically someone who's too chicken to make their mind up. |
Alternatively, someone who believes that such things are entirely unknowable. This can (rarely, though) be combined with religious belief - a sort of 'We'll never know, but I believe in it anyway'. |
Nah, I stand by my statement. It is the Atheist thread after all. Not the "can't make up my mind" thread. I have enough trouble with CMUMM people who stand in the line in front of me at McDonalds and um and er, even though they've had plenty of time to decide on something as they've been in the line for the past five minutes. McDonald agnostics! |
*sits on the fence throwing McFlurries at C'ren*
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 11:47 am Post subject: |
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So...people who don't/can't decide on which puny burger to have are wimps? Heheheh. Has anyone else noticed faith-based matters tend to bring up all sorts of odd allegories?
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| Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I used to be agnostic. There is a difference between not knowing and not being able to decide. Though, as I experience more and more of the world, I'm fairly certain that there has to be some higher power out there. Or, at the very least, I'm fairly certain that I'd like to pretend there is one out there, and for me to pretend there's enough evidence to prove that he exists.
That being said, I'm firmly a deist. I have absolutely no belief that He would meddle in our affairs in any way. It would be far too self-centered of me to believe that He has nothing better to do than view the Earth as an interactive soap opera. I should hope that He has better, more interesting, and more important things to do than help me out with a math test or some other such trivial nonsense.
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| Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a hard enough time understanding what religion is to even begin to figure out what is meant by "atheism". I ask you- are these concepts anything more than constructs of our mind or of our society?
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:46 am Post subject: |
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Im spiritual, not religious 
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Hello, I am spiritaul and I am a christain, but what I was once told. It's better to pray when you really need it than to pray and not mean it... How you like my point of view.
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The White Blacksmith
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Kalanna Rai wrote: | | All I believe is that there might be someone(s) or something(s) out there and I'm not going to piss them off by telling them they're fake. |
Ah, Pascal's Wager. I was waiting for that to come up.
Personally, I would probably count as an atheist. I don't think about it much, because I really don't see the point of arguing about theology. If atheists and agnostics are trying to convince people who've been brought up religiously that they should have the freedom to choose their religion* then why argue so hard to persuade them that they're wrong? We should also bear in mind that "personal" viewpoints are generally shaped by the media and opinions we're exposed to, even when we don't realise. I'm certain that my parents would be fine if I chose to have a religion. I'm also certain that, being non-religious themselves (though brought up religious) they have brought me up to believe in the constantly changing and modified theories of the world as presented by Science.
I largely read what, in most countries, might be considered fairly left-wing media (though in England it's actually more like center-right) and although I am aware that it is pushing a certain viewpoint, I am much more likely to reject very conservative media or very liberal media for having a bias if and when I read it. I have my opinions and I pay attention to media that agrees with and reaffirms my opinions, which is why I don't think theological debate will help anyone. People are much more likely to reach their own opinions if they cut themselves off from the debate rather than if they immerse themselves in it.
*It's in the Universal Declaration of Human rights, guys. Articles 19 and 20. Look it up.
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| Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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An atheist's view:
Theists: Fools who believe in fairy tales
Agnostics: Cowards who are too afraid to make a decision
Atheists: Right
A Theist's View:
Theists: Right (but only if you believe in the same thing as me!)
Agnostics: Cowards who are too afraid to make a decision
Atheists: Fools who are arrogant enough to believe they know what happened
An Agnostic's View:
Theists: They might be right, they certainly think so
Agnostic: Hey! We both admit that we don't know the answer! That's cool I guess.
Atheists: They might be right, they certainly think so
My View:
Who cares?
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Scheherazade wrote: | | Just curious... Of those of you who mock Christianity (Christianity in specific, not religion in general), how many have actually read some of the New Testament? |
I was born and raised in a rural part of the deep south. I was in church twice per week. Church and everything about religion was poured over me from an early age. I've read the Old and New Testaments. I only recently became Atheist. There was no defining moment for me just a build up and as I get older I tend to employ more common sense.
I don't really think I mock religion. It's all in good fun. It doesn't matter where you stand on the issue, one thing is certain. Not very many in the debate that will debate it without trying to completely debunk the other one. I just tell people how I feel and let the issues stand on their own.
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| Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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I'm agnostic, and I'm proud of it.
There's a big difference between not being able to decide, and submitting to the knowledge that there isn't enough evidence to prove anything either way. I understand how some people are religious, though, and I understand how someone can be perfectly rational about it as well. It all depends on how one defines "faith". Some people think it's shutting your eyes and covering your ears to all evidence to the contrary. But, I believe the more beautiful definition is the ability to believe in something when there is no evidence. Having no evidence is not the same as having contradictory evidence. You don't have evidence that your partner never cheated on you, but you can still believe. Shutting oneself from contradictory evidence, however, is taking the beauty out of the word "faith".
So, just to be intentionally provocative. The term "lack of beliefs" actually describes agnostics a lot better than atheists. When one "denies the existence of god", that's technically a belief because one has decided to shut themselves to the other possibilities. Don't bring in the "evidence" argument in, because, as a physicist, I can definitely tell you that science did not disprove the existence of a higher power. How can it? There is no measurement that can disprove something so abstract, even if we have the technology to perform the measurement. Well, maybe one day we can have the ability, but not today, and not for decades at least.
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