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The Meaning Of Fear
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 Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: Global Warming survey! |
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For the purposes of homework (A.K.A. The Firey Hells), please help me by replying to the survey below:
1) Are you aware of climate change? Please explain what you think it is.
2) What do you think are the causes?
3) Do you think climate change is a problem, and if so how?
4) Do you think there is a need to do something about it? If so how?*
5) How do you think the government should act towards climate change?
6) In your opinion, how do you think it will affect future generations?
*I don't know why it's "how". It doesn't really make sense to me in that context, but I was told to copy this to the last word, so yeah.
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Cherish all your memories, even the bad ones, for they are what makes you who you are.
Doors to the truth, an SG where a boy is propelled into worlds he is unfamiliar with. He crosses many worlds, and sees many things that force him to throw away his innocence, once, and for all. Fourth Chapter, out for viewing!
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Meranos
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject: Global warming is a lie. |
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So when you say climate change you basically mean global warming, right?
(1) (a) Yes (b) I think climate change is just the natural course of the seasons.
(2) The seasons.
(3) (a) No (b) It's not a problem because it's natural.
(4) The government should declare it as what it is.
(5) I think they will have warmth in summer, lack thereof in winter, etc. & it won't be the fault of people spewing pollution in the air. That causes things like lung cancer, not climate change.
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TruePurple
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| Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I think climate change is just the natural course of the seasons |
What's that people here say, "face desk"? You think many respected scientists from all around the world mistook long term documented global temperature increase for seasons?!?!   
People have observed everywhere that glaciers have melted. That snow and ice have retreated. That land has disappeared due to rising oceans. Even that garden climate zones have changed so that gardners can now plant according to one zone warmer then older planting models. That the world is getting warmer over the years is very well documented.
There are also good forecasts now for global climate change. The science for the effects of green houses gases is undisputed.
So we know the world is getting warmer, we know gasses we produce cause it to get warmer. Only a idiot, a ignoramus, or someone invested in denying it like energy industries would not get 4 when adding 2&2.
The end results are a little less well known. But so far they have been largely negative.
We need to be willing to take drastic action and quick, unfortunately many will take little action or none at all, until it's too late.
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Adventures of John Chapter 2. I am working to update chapter 1 before I close poll and write chapter 3.
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Smee
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Only a idiot, a ignoramus, or someone invested in denying it like energy industries would not get 4 when adding 2&2. |
Ok, ok, TP - let's keep it to the statistics and 'facts' (in as much as they can be determined), and away from the insults. We're debating the topic, not abusing other people's differing opinions.
I personally am not too certain of the 'facts', and this is a relatively recent change of opinion for me. All the basis for growing global temperatures is based on a recorded history of what? Somewhere between 50-150 years at most?
Yet, there is a circle of "respected scientists from around the world" who are starting to speak of a different danger. One that draws evidence from ice cores showing weather/temperature patterns for many millenia, rather than just the last century. An evidence source that seems to hold more weight with me.
And this evidence suggests the warming we've experience is nothing unusual on this planet. Something that happens every 10 000-15 000 years or so regardless (a pattern that can't be spotted by 150 years of recording). And more importantly these cores speak of a very real pattern of ice ages with many thousands of years inbetween.
And perhaps the most crucial addition to the ice core evidence. The next iceage - it is late. It is due, imminently (imminent when talking of patterns that extend on timescales of this range means in the next 100-400 years or so). It could even be that our inadvertant actions to warm the planet could be helping delay it. In which case, arguably we should continue just as we are.
One of the only actual facts is - we don't, and can't know for certain what will happen precisely.
~
By far the greater voice at this time is the anti-warming evidence that TP speaks of. And I agree, if those fears turn out true, we are probably already teetering on the edge of it being too late to do anything about it. Anything that should be done, would have to be pretty drastic.
But I have been swayed slightly (not completely convinced, but definately made to stop a moment and think) by this ice core evidence. It certainly brings questions to my mind that we don't know everything.
We're dealing with chaos systems interacting with chaos systems on a massive scale over a long time frame. Chaos theory explains how difficult it is to predict accurate changes.
It certainly isn't a simple case of 2 + 2 and should never be made to appear so.
~
And as a final note - evidence also shows that the Earth's magnetic field goes through a swap of polarity every 10 000 - 20 000 years too. Again this is bordering on late, and should happen 'soon'. During the swap, for about 10-50 years, the planet will have a severely weakened magnetic field and the Earth will likely be bombarded by radiation from the sun usually bounced away by the field (as seen in the Northern light display). The planet could very well heat up because of this.
Heat up, cool down, who knows. There's a cosmic ballet of timing out there, and it all seems to be nearly here, or late, and all expected soon. Human actions will likely play a part, but whether as a token extra or leading lady, who knows?
* Disclaimer : All my mention of time period 10 000, 20 000 etc are based on my memory. I likely have them remembered wrong, so just take them as meaning "lots of years".
** A google search for something like "ice core evidence for ice age" will likely let you find published papers of this evidence for your own perusal
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Crunchyfrog
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:41 am Post subject: |
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The Earth's long term climate change is affected by a number of cycles - the precessional cycle (of about 26000 years) which is a slow 'wobble' about the axis - imagine a spinning top's centre tracing a small circle as it slows down.
There is the perihelion cycle, which is the eccentricity of the elipse shape of the Earth's orbit - basically the elipse goes from being longer and thinner to more circular over a cycle of 21,000 years. This affects the overall fluctuation of the earth's temperature over the period of a year.
Then there is the obliquity of the Earth's tilt (imagine the Earth's axis nodding up and down) over a period of 41000 years. This affects how extreme the seasons are.
That and the fact that the Sun is a variable star with a cycle of 22 years pretty much means that predicting climate change is a very complex thing.
That we're having some influence on it can't be ignored, but we're only one of a large number of influences.
So, for your survey my answers would be:
| Quote: | For the purposes of homework (A.K.A. The Firey Hells), please help me by replying to the survey below:
1) Are you aware of climate change? YES Please explain what you think it is. Climate change is a general shift in the Earth's overall climate.
2) What do you think are the causes? I think the causes are mostly natural, (cyclical changes to the Earth's orbit, axial tilt, magnetic field, fluctuation in the Sun's output/magnetic field) and partially due to human intervention.
3) Do you think climate change is a problem, and if so how? Probably, depending on how it affects life on this planet.
4) Do you think there is a need to do something about it? If so how?* Yes - although we can only control the aspects we've contributed to. Each and every one of us can do a little bit to help in our day to day lives -
5) How do you think the government should act towards climate change? Heh, which government? I think every government should recognise their responsibility to educate and and encourage people and businesses to control our effect on the climate in whatever ways they can.
6) In your opinion, how do you think it will affect future generations? I don't know how it will affect future generations, only that it will. . |
Last edited by Crunchyfrog on Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chinaren
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TruePurple
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| Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:56 am Post subject: |
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That's more like it Smee, You might argue cause and effect to a certain degree, but it's a joke to claim the world isn't warming. You don't need scientists to know that its warming. Just observation. There is hardly anywhere in the world were snow, ice, frost, glaciers etc aren't retreating. Snap shots of mountains 30 years ago verses today draw a strong contrast (with the loss of their snowcaps) The effects of permafrost retreating in Alaska physically changing the landscape as well as endangering elk and such by increase mosquito activity and deeper snow has been directly observed. We know of a number of deserts increasing in size, like the Sarah. Disappearing island and coast line speaks directly of a rising ocean (unless someone can offer a alternative explanation for the oceans rising?) This speaks of global temperature increase, not changes in where on earth the heat is, in reply to what CF said about global wobble. Theres even proof that global temperature increase is causing drought in Africa (it has to do with heat over the oceans strengthing air currents that prevent rain clouds appearing there, or something like that. It also causes their dusty soil to go all the way over the ocean to hit US coastline with really negative effects on ocean life and people)
We also know that greenhouse gasses do cause the earth to get warmer, and the effect can be fast. Where as I bet the transition into ice ages to be slower. If there are any signs of a ice age we can always reverse course.
An analogy (chin helped:p) the oven in the kitchen is on, we know it is on and will cause things to get warmer, we know the kitchen is getting warmer. We know loaves of bread sitting on the counter are drying out because of this. Now, the temperature outside, whether the windows and doors are open or not, whether the weather/season may change tomorrow or the next month, may all effect the temperature in the room. But we know the effect is bad, we know we are the cause of the effect. The only disadvantage of doing something, anything to help elevate the problem is our hassle & discomfort. So do you do something, or do you make excuses or deny the problem exists in the first place?
Using bikes to get around, reducing, reusing and recycling what we buy and use, when we do buy products, buying more environmentally responsible products, turning things off when we aren't using them & use them less if we can, to keep the thermostat down and wearing warmer cloths, are all simple ways of making a big difference. Not just with global warming, but to improve the world we live in, in alot of ways, ways that will & have directly effected us.
In some ways it can be said it is already too late, but don't let that be your excuse, the problem exists and there is nothing we can do to get ride of it's shorter term effects. But if you are in a hole, its your job to try to climb out, not keep digging since you figure your too far down to manage to get out anyway. Things could be not so good, or they could be alot worse.
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Adventures of John Chapter 2. I am working to update chapter 1 before I close poll and write chapter 3.
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TruePurple
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| Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Another bad aspect of global warming. It wasn't just the mosquitoes that were harassing the deer population, driving them to areas where food wasn't as plentiful. It also causes more snow in these areas during the winter, making it much harder for them to reach their food.
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Adventures of John Chapter 2. I am working to update chapter 1 before I close poll and write chapter 3.
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